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2017 Draft

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1 minute ago, chaps80 said:


You really think us anti-Holland types would go shoot some people because our GM sucks? It's only hockey. Lol


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Who knows? The anger is so over-the-top with some of you. I'm just glad you take it out here where I can easily add you to my ignore list.

2 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

At least I didn't say I'd hit him...

Yeah, but you'd WANT to. Admit it. You'd want to run over Ken Holland with your truck.

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"We kicked the tires around on drafting Owen, but in the end we felt that we didn't need a pure goal scorer, we wanted someone who is just a powerplay specialist. Primary assists? That's what Z and Kronner are for. We don't need anyone getting more points than Z now do we?"  - Ken Holland

5 minutes ago, sputman said:

Who knows? The anger is so over-the-top with some of you. I'm just glad you take it out here where I can easily add you to my ignore list.

Yeah, but you'd WANT to. Admit it. You'd want to run over Ken Holland with your truck.

Ok, I'd splash him, then turn around and splash him again.

And if i made him coffee, I'd use toilet water...

Edited by LeftWinger

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Who are you, Kreskin? You can't see into the future, dude. Stop trying, put down the books they aren't working. I wanted Tippett, too, but we didn't get him. Maybe he'll be really good, maybe not.

I hope Rasmussen is really good, and not to prove anybody wrong, but just because it would be awesome to have a 6'6" powerhouse on the team.

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Who are you, Kreskin? You can't see into the future, dude. Stop trying, put down the books they aren't working. I wanted Tippett, too, but we didn't get him. Maybe he'll be really good, maybe not.
I hope Rasmussen is really good, and not to prove anybody wrong, but just because it would be awesome to have a 6'6" powerhouse on the team.


I agree. Love the idea of a huge forward on the team, but it kinda worries me. Every time the Wings draft size, they either don't make the team (McKee), or end up neutered when they get to Detroit. There already big guys on the roster (Mantha, Sheahan, Errorsson, Abby, Franzen at one point) and most of them play a foot smaller.


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I like how we've been drafting and signing some edgy, in-your-face type players over the last few years. It's not been fun watching the team get pushed around. Now we've got Bertuzzi, Smith, Renouf, and who knows, maybe Fraser and Zablocki down the road. There seems to be a bit of a sea change going on and I like it. 

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I like how we've been drafting and signing some edgy, in-your-face type players over the last few years. It's not been fun watching the team get pushed around. Now we've got Bertuzzi, Smith, Renouf, and who knows, maybe Fraser and Zablocki down the road. There seems to be a bit of a sea change going on and I like it. 


Bertuzzi needs to step it up this season and bring some of that style to the big team. In his minimal games last year, he did not look confident, and no one was the least bit concerned with nailing him good it seems. Bring your nuts with you this time Bert.


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Just now, chaps80 said:

 


I agree. Love the idea of a huge forward on the team, but it kinda worries me. Every time the Wings draft size, they either don't make the team (McKee), or end up neutered when they get to Detroit. There already big guys on the roster (Mantha, Sheahan, Errorsson, Abby, Franzen at one point) and most of them play a foot smaller.


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Well McKee was a long-shot project from the get-go, not a 9th overall pick. Mantha was a highish pick and he's turning out pretty well. Along with his skill he had more fights last year than any year in juniors. Sheahan isn't physical. Ericsson plays more physical than I think people give him credit for, but he doesn't punish people. Abdelkader pisses people off. 

As goofy as Blashill looks, and as questionable as his tactics are, I think he embraces a "protect your teammates" approach more than Babcock did, which is exciting.

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1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

 


Bertuzzi needs to step it up this season and bring some of that style to the big team. In his minimal games last year, he did not look confident, and no one was the least bit concerned with nailing him good it seems. Bring your nuts with you this time Bert.


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True, he was very passive when he was up. 

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44 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Umm, first of a list of 2. Not sure that adds much.

Why is everyone suddenly acting like size doesn't matter? (p.s. i know, i know...phrasing...)

What's weird is I'm really glad we are adding size and didn't think the draft was a total f'up.

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21 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Ok, I'd splash him, then turn around and splash him again.

And if i made him coffee, I'd use toilet water...

Dude at least give him enough credit to not let you anywhere near his coffee.

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Well McKee was a long-shot project from the get-go, not a 9th overall pick. Mantha was a highish pick and he's turning out pretty well. Along with his skill he had more fights last year than any year in juniors. Sheahan isn't physical. Ericsson plays more physical than I think people give him credit for, but he doesn't punish people. Abdelkader pisses people off. 
As goofy as Blashill looks, and as questionable as his tactics are, I think he embraces a "protect your teammates" approach more than Babcock did, which is exciting.


Yeah, McKee was a long shot. Would have been cool to see him get in some games, but he seemed more inclined to be a maniacal goon instead of improving his actual hockey skills. He'd probably be kicked out of the league by now anyways. Watching that guys fights, he's relentless and you can see the pleasure he takes in beating the s*** out of people. Probably one of those guys who would be in jail for that if he didn't get to take his aggressions out on the ice.

Man thanks sticks up for himself, and E will fight, but with his size he should be laying out guys like Kronwall used to. Players should fear a guy that size in their way, but they can usually just skate by him, or know he won't do much. Abby is a pest, but he used to do more than that. Not that he won a lot of fights, but he'd fight anyways.


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47 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Umm, first of a list of 2. Not sure that adds much.

Why is everyone suddenly acting like size doesn't matter? (p.s. i know, i know...phrasing...)

A player's size only matters when other skills are relatively equal.  Joe Thornton or Corey Perry aren't good because they're big.  They're good because they have high end skills, their size makes them better.  The problem that I have with Rasmussen is that he doesn't seem to have any high end skills to speak of.  He's all size.  His skating needs work, his shot isn't great, he's not an especially creative passer or stick handler.  I would expect a guy that's 6'6 and playing against children to MURDER them.  Instead he had an ok season; which probably says something about how generally untalented he is. Compare that to Mantha (also a HUGE guy, but with skill) who absolutely dominated when playing against kids 1/10th his size

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1 minute ago, chaps80 said:

 


Yeah, McKee was a long shot. Would have been cool to see him get in some games, but he seemed more inclined to be a maniacal goon instead of improving his actual hockey skills. He'd probably be kicked out of the league by now anyways. Watching that guys fights, he's relentless and you can see the pleasure he takes in beating the s*** out of people. Probably one of those guys who would be in jail for that if he didn't get to take his aggressions out on the ice.

Man thanks sticks up for himself, and E will fight, but with his size he should be laying out guys like Kronwall used to. Players should fear a guy that size in their way, but they can usually just skate by him, or know he won't do much. Abby is a pest, but he used to do more than that. Not that he won a lot of fights, but he'd fight anyways.


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Ericsson doesn't have the skating ability that Kronwall does/did to lay people out. He's more of a North-South skater, probably fairly easy to avoid. I just wish he was meaner in front of the net. More cross-checks to the back. Get them away from the goalie, that kind of thing. 

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1 minute ago, sputman said:

Ericsson doesn't have the skating ability that Kronwall does/did to lay people out. He's more of a North-South skater, probably fairly easy to avoid. I just wish he was meaner in front of the net. More cross-checks to the back. Get them away from the goalie, that kind of thing. 

That's a pretty old fashioned way of thinking about hockey tbh.  Nashville had the league's best defense and didn't have a "crease clearer".  They're too busy getting the puck up ice and away from their own net.  Having some big "crease clearer" out there just conceded the puck to the opposition.  In today's game you need guys who can get the puck and get it out of the zone, not bang offensive players while they attempt to camp out in front of your goalie.

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1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

That's a pretty old fashioned way of thinking about hockey tbh.  Nashville had the league's best defense and didn't have a "crease clearer".  They're too busy getting the puck up ice and away from their own net.  Having some big "crease clearer" out there just conceded the puck to the opposition.  In today's game you need guys who can get the puck and get it out of the zone, not bang offensive players while they attempt to camp out in front of your goalie.

We were talking about big players playing big. 

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4 minutes ago, sputman said:

We were talking about big players playing big. 

I realize that.  And I'm saying that it's a tautology.  "Big players should play big because playing big is what big players should do" completely misses the point that often times "playing big" means playing without the puck, which is actually bad.  I'd rather a defenseman never hit anybody, ever, because he always has the puck on his stick making plays.  That's way better than clearing creases.

Playing big wouldn't make Ericsson, or our team, any better.  Being able to get control of the puck, and get it to the forwards competently and efficiently would make Ericsson better. 

Edited by kipwinger

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8 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

A player's size only matters when other skills are relatively equal.  Joe Thornton or Corey Perry aren't good because they're big.  They're good because they have high end skills, their size makes them better.  The problem that I have with Rasmussen is that he doesn't seem to have any high end skills to speak of.  He's all size.  His skating needs work, his shot isn't great, he's not an especially creative passer or stick handler.  I would expect a guy that's 6'6 and playing against children to MURDER them.  Instead he had an ok season; which probably says something about how generally untalented he is. Compare that to Mantha (also a HUGE guy, but with skill) who absolutely dominated when playing against kids 1/10th his size

You nailed it. There were defensemen on his team who had more points than him 5v5. Look st his highlights. All garbage goals on PP only due to size difference. 

4th line grinder material at best. 

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12 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

A player's size only matters when other skills are relatively equal.  Joe Thornton or Corey Perry aren't good because they're big.  They're good because they have high end skills, their size makes them better.  The problem that I have with Rasmussen is that he doesn't seem to have any high end skills to speak of.  He's all size.  His skating needs work, his shot isn't great, he's not an especially creative passer or stick handler.  I would expect a guy that's 6'6 and playing against children to MURDER them.  Instead he had an ok season; which probably says something about how generally untalented he is. Compare that to Mantha (also a HUGE guy, but with skill) who absolutely dominated when playing against kids 1/10th his size

Well several scouting reports disagree with your assessment.  

"Rasmussen can score goals and for a 6-foot-5 player, scouts are impressed at how well he gets around the ice." - Jeff Marek of Sportsnet

"He knows how to use his 6-foot-6, 215-pound frame to his fullest advantage. He has shown more confidence this season with 51 points (30 goals, 21 assists) in 46 games. Does a fine job getting to the dirty areas to provide screens and get deflections, and knows how to protect the puck with his reach."Mike Morreale NHL.com

 "A big kid with strong puck protection skills. Works hard all over the ice and has good playmaking skills. Uses his good vision and passing skills to distribute the puck effectively. "Dennis Schellenberg Hockey Prospectus

There are others, but you get the idea.  He's not perfect, he has some aspects of his game that he needs to work on, but honestly they all do.  No one is going to come out of the draft and into the NHL and be perfect.  With all these teams going for the speedy defensemen, I want to know who's going to stop him from scoring goals in front of the net.  If we can get a couple d-men that can shoot the puck hard from the point and this kid in front of the net, this is a good formula for plenty of PP goals in the future.

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10 minutes ago, xtrememachine1 said:

Well several scouting reports disagree with your assessment.  

"Rasmussen can score goals and for a 6-foot-5 player, scouts are impressed at how well he gets around the ice." - Jeff Marek of Sportsnet

"He knows how to use his 6-foot-6, 215-pound frame to his fullest advantage. He has shown more confidence this season with 51 points (30 goals, 21 assists) in 46 games. Does a fine job getting to the dirty areas to provide screens and get deflections, and knows how to protect the puck with his reach."Mike Morreale NHL.com

 "A big kid with strong puck protection skills. Works hard all over the ice and has good playmaking skills. Uses his good vision and passing skills to distribute the puck effectively. "Dennis Schellenberg Hockey Prospectus

There are others, but you get the idea.  He's not perfect, he has some aspects of his game that he needs to work on, but honestly they all do.  No one is going to come out of the draft and into the NHL and be perfect.  With all these teams going for the speedy defensemen, I want to know who's going to stop him from scoring goals in front of the net.  If we can get a couple d-men that can shoot the puck hard from the point and this kid in front of the net, this is a good formula for plenty of PP goals in the future.

Strawman argument.  I didn't say the kid should be perfect.  I said that he was fairly unimpressive given his massive physical advantage, and that may be indicative of limited skill in other areas.  If he's really skilled, and really mobile, and really big and playing against kids much smaller than him then his lack of elite production becomes even more baffling.  Based on the scouting reports you put up there, Rasmussen is a big, fast, center who scores goals and passes really well.  Ok, but why didn't he score more goals and have more assists at 5on5 then?  Something's gotta give.

I agree that netfront guys are nice.  I just think you maybe don't use the highest draft pick you've had in 30 years on another Tomas Holmstrom.  Seems like poor asset management to me.

Edited by kipwinger

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Just now, kipwinger said:

Strawman argument.  I didn't say the kid should be perfect.  I said that he was fairly unimpressive given his massive physical advantage, and that may be indicative of limited skill in other areas.  If he's really skilled, and really mobile, and really big and playing against kids much smaller than him then his lack of elite production becomes even more baffling.  Based on the scouting reports you put up there, Rasmussen is a big, fast, center who scores goals and passes really well.  Ok, but why didn't he score more goals and have more assists at 5on5 then?  Something's gotta give.

Well it could really be any number of things.  Its a team sport, afterall. Could be linemates, strategy, coaching.  All the scouts can really comment on is his individual ability which sounds pretty good.  

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