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Seth Jones at first will turn out to be a second pairing defenseman at best he could become a Shea Weber light which is still very good. As far Johansen the guy has all the tools to become an absolute stud as a number 1 center. Nashville received a huge upgrade to their offense while giving up some depth of somethng they are already loaded with, good defenders. Coloumbus has improved their defense in a great way but they'll now spend years and years searching another rugged number 1 center...and we've all seen how easy that is.

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Excellent GDT Lgw!

Weiss didn't work out. It sucks we had to buy him out but it happens to every team in the league. Howard has been great up until this recent stretch. He will need to be traded within the next year or so though. You're really bringing up Tootoo? If he were still here, you'd have a point. Holland made good on that buyout. Ericsson is slightly overpaid but not near as bad as some make it seem. The Kindl deal sucks but again, there are many other much worse contracts around the league. Cleary is a Griffin, not a Red Wing. Nothing against our cap. Holland isn't perfect, nor is any other GM in the league. There may be a few doing a better job right now, but I have no issue with the way Kenny is managing this team. Once again rebuilding on the fly. Be patient...

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ASG aside, I think it's extremely premature to be talking about Dylark as an elite hockey player, and I think it breeds unrealistic expectations. He has a f*** ton (actual measurement, look it up) of potential, and has achieved the rare feat of Exceeding Expectations , but the kid is a rookie. He's just getting his sea legs, and to compare him to Yzergod this early in the game is setting us all up for heartbreak. Let him develop his game, and let's sit back and enjoy watching him. I don't want to puff him up now and in two years be talking about "what could have been." I'll set my expectations moderately, and hopefully we'll all be blown out of the water if and when he grows to be truly "elite."

We have this thanks to our genius GM: Weiss missing tooth out of work buyout 15 mil Howard backup goalie 4 more years 20 mil Tootoo playing in Jersey buyout 4 mil Ericsson 3 more years 15 mil Kindl sitting in the pressbox 1 more year 2.5 mil Cleary in the minors 1.5 mil There are about 3 other bad contracts, but those were all fairly understandable at the time. Our GM is the king of not knowing what he's doing.

I said this in another thread, but it's much more relevant here... My problem with arguing the word "elite" is much like arguing the meaning of many words, people have different interpretations... To me, elite is not exclusive to two or three players in the league, nor is it two or three players on every team. When Babcock left for Toronto, one of his quotes regarding Nazem Kadri was "well I expect him to be an elite player". I don't think anyone would suggest that Babs expected Kadri to be a top 50 player in the league, let alone top two or three... I've heard Blashill say several times that he believes DeKeyser "is an elite player in the league". Does that mean he thinks he's the next Lidstrom or Orr? I doubt it. Another quote from Blashill regarding Nyquist and Tatar, "I believe they either have been or are going to be elite players in this league". Does anyone think that Blash is saying that they have the potential to be the next Gretzky or Lemieux? Again, I doubt it. How many times have we heard coaches, commentators, analysts say so-and-so is elite, or even just a generic comment such as "they have some elite players over there" when talking about the opposition? It could be regarding the Chicago Blackhawks or the Buffalo Sabres, the word is still used. No one would argue that there is at least one elite player on Chicago, whether it's Toews, Kane, Keith, etc., but who on Buffalo is elite? My point is, oftentimes the word is used very loosely, and it just depends on your interpretation of the word. Larkin has been compared to some of the greats that were / are elite. Everyone's heard the comparisons to Yzerman and Toews, just or not. I think everyone would agree that Larkin is an elite rookie in the league and has elite potential, but I don't think it's fair to label him elite league wide at this point in his career. Just my opinion...

Every that constantly b****es about Ken Holland, be thankful you're not a Flyers fan... #Flyers' buried / retained salary is astronomical: Vinny ($2.25M), MacDonald ($3.975M), Schenn ($1.8M), Gagner ($2.25M), Grossmann ($500K). That's absolutely insane... Nearly 11M in unusable cap space...

Let's Go Wings! Awesome GDT pic!

Let's go wings!

That right there is the flaw in your argument. Potential as an elite player doesn't mean currently elite. If Larkin is elite right now, so are Panarin, Pavelski, Kuznetsov, Steen, Hoffman, Cammaleri, Sharp, Eriksson, Little, Hartnell, and the other 64 forwards who have as many or more points.

I disagree. We clearly have trouble identifying hockey sense in young defensemen. Otherwise, you could call our success in drafting smaller, undersized European forwards luck as well. Lidstrom and Konstantinov were picked 53rd and 221st overall, respectively. Any team could have drafted them.

Just off the top of my head Ekblad made it last year, and Crosby and Ovechkin obviously would have made it in their first years, but it happened to be an Olympic year.

Also makes me happy that Larkin is in for the all-star game and Eichel or Panarin aren't. All-star game is pretty silly and all but the recognition/publicity Larkin is going to get (while representing the Red Wings) excites me.

Well, you got me there Bobby. You debunked my ass pretty good on that one. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Skinner

My bad I did not read your last sentence where you stated your conclusion on Larkin. I edited my response.

Define elite. To me it's bthe very best. Top 10 forwards, top 5 D, top 3 or 4 goalies, or there about. Guys who are up there every year. Larkin isn't close to that. Throwing age out, there are a ton of guys I'd trade him for right now, just for this season. Some people seem to define it as he's good and on my team and I like him and I think he's going to get better. Lots of guys have great rookie years and plateau early. Way too soon to call him generational, especially when he's not even close to a point a game.

You acknowledge that Zetterberg never plays in the All-Star game because he chooses not to, but then go on to say that Crosby has been "snubbed"... What makes you think Crosby, for whatever reason, chose not to go, like MANY have in the past... Sure it's possible, but I'd find it very hard to believe that Crosby was simply overlooked. Even with his subpar (to his standards) season, he is still producing more than quite a few that have been selected.

Bill, didn't you suggest that his stats are as good as anyone in the league, or something like that? How is 27pts comparable to 59pts? There is nothing elite about 27pts in 39 games. Arguing whether he's the best of the team right now is one thing and possible, but that doesn't make him elite. I agree with others though, it's all in perception of the term. In my mind, there are very few elite players in the league, if there are a lot, then how could you really call them elite? Some teams have 1, some have more than 1 and some have none.

This i can dig. I just have a hard time acknowledging eliteness in a player who is 66th in league scoring, ranking alongside the likes of Adam Henrique, and Frans Nielson. 48th in goals, 127th in assists, 85th in points/game. He is tied for first leaguewide in +/-, which is certainly worth mentioning, but I don't think that's enough to label him elite just yet. If we are comparing him to other rookies? Definitely elite. If we are grading based on potential? Definitely elite. But if we are comparing him to the league as a whole and not putting limitations on his competition, then he hasn't proven himself to be elite in any statistical category other than +/-. That's not to say he won't next year, or the year after that, or averaged over his entire career. He just hasn't done so to date.

Kindl has no value

You wouldn't trade him for McDavid, Tavares or Benn?

How would you know, you were in diapers back then. On a serious note, I just get tired of people (not you) blaming the lack of a salary cap on the Wings' past success. Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, the Grind Line -- these core players were cultivated by the team, not mercenaries bought in to win a championship. The Wings became a winner because they sucked in the 80's and drafted well into the early 90's. Even Shanny coming to Detroit was the result of a 1st round pick.