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Downward trajectory for 15 years? The 02 and 08 teams were some of the most successful in NHL history. The only conclusion I draw is fans over-dramatize things too much. We've been in a downward trajectory since 2010 at best. 6 years.

What exactly are you basing that on? Anything?? Or are you just making stuff up like you usually do?

I like how I started a thread without starting a thread. Cool, magic!!

Again, I must dispute the whole "bought the Cup" theory. Buying the Cup means you gave up nothing and just threw a butt ton of cash at all the top F/A's in order to bring them in to win it all. Let's break it down from the playoff team: Yzerman - DRAFTED Shanahan - TRADED for Coffey, Primeau, 1st round pick Fedorov - DRAFTED Hull - Signed on August 22nd, 2001, nearly THREE months after any other team could've signed him. Lets note that he took less to come here. His own team didn't want him back, nether did St. Louis. Lidstrom - DRAFTED Chelios - TRADED for Eriksson and TWO 1st round picks Holmstrom - DRAFTED Robitaille - SIGNED July 5th, 2001, 4 days after UFA started and only after they lost Lapointe. The Kings told him they weren't interested in his services anymore, or he would have re-signed there. McCarty - DRAFTED Datsyuk - DRAFTED Fischer - DRAFTED Maltby - TRADED for (basically thrown aside by Edmonton) Dan McGillis in 1996 Devereaux - SIGNED as UFA on AUGUST 23, 2000. Again nearly 3 months after all other teams could've signed him. Including his own. Another Edmonton cast off. Olausson - SIGNED as UFA May 24th, 2001 out the Swiss league. Duchesne - SIGNED as UFA September 3, 1999 a whole 3 months after anyone else could've signed him. Including his team Philly. Larionov - TRADED for Ray Sheppard Oct. 24th, 1995 one of our LAST 50 goal scoerer's on this team (52 in 1994) plus he scored 30 goals in the 43 game shortened season before he was dealt. No exactly table scraps. TRADED for Golubovsky from Florida in 2000 after he left UFA that summer. So basically we traded Ray Sheppard and Yan Golubovsky to get Larionov. Draper - TRADED for ONE Canadian dollar, basically thrown in the garbage by Winnipeg June 30, 1993. Dandenault - DRAFTED Hasek - TRADED for Kozlov and a 1st round pick July 1, 2001. Krupp - Lets just forget this UFA signing, he only played 2 games anyhow Legace - Claimed of WAIVERS from Vancouver (Oct. 1999.) Who claimed him from us off waivers (Sept. 1999,) after we signed him as a career minor league UFA in August 1999. Slegr - TRADED for Butsayev and a 2nd round pick from Atlanta at the 2002 deadline. Williams - Signed as UFA in September 2000. Honestly that is really not buying The Cup as basically defined by "buying" a Championship, when you are signing players nobody else wanted and giving up multiple assets to acquire players. Plus using your drafted players. I laugh when other fans say that Cup was bought.

This is the perfect example to me of how fans will twist anything against Holland. Any other GM makes a UFA signing that contributes to a cup and they are given credit, Holland does it and you say "he used Illitch's cash". Holland is not perfect by any means, but its crazy how fans will stretch reality to put him down.

"Somewhat" of a contribution to the 2008 roster. Babcock was the genius behind it all.

Sources..

Holland did not build the 97,98, 02 teams. He did what Bowman told him to do. That being said Holland was very good at his job during that period of time. We won Cups and that is all that matters. He has had a HOF career. The questions about Holland in my mind come during the Cap era were he has been subpar. We haven't drafted well over the last 15 years, very few trades in total and none for impact players, very few impact UFA signings, and he has resigned far too many players to big money contracts that are not worth it. For example this is going to happen. Tatar is a RFA this summer. Does anyone think Holland will overpay to resign him? I do. I fully expect Tatar to get a 4+ year deal with an average cap hit of 4.5 million or more. At that point we will have 3 F's making a combined 12+ million that combined can't score 40 goals. (tatar, nyquist, and Helm). It is time for Holland to retire and take his place in the HOF so we as a team can move on and hopefully upward.

#7 pick doesn't satisfy me. Unless its #1 or #2 we better win games. Top 2 picks can turn your team around. #7 would not, especially not in the Red Wings org that would immediately go back to playoffs and be stuck with more #15-20 picks the following years.

It would be hillarious to me if the first season we miss, we win the lottery and draft nolan patrick. Id feel very comfortable moving tatar and gus for D help too at that point

I think its funny that a ton of fans heap praise towards our scouts and guys like Nill and Yzerman during their time in the front office, but then Holland gets 0 cred for the 97 cup? Hadnt he been scouting for us for a while already? Due to the fact that he was promoted he was probably responible for drafting a lot of our best players in the 90s. Guy deserves cred for all our cups post dead wings. What's interesting to me is what Holland does with a (hopefully not) non playoff team. He was handed a tier 1 team the day he became GM, and he managed to continually retool that team and achieve championships and po success despite massive league changes to the way the game is played and to the way the business is run (he deserves godly amounts of praise for this IMO its unheard of in most sports and especially in hockey with the massive amount of evolution weve undergone). But 2010 to now has seen us in slow decline. And if we dont make the post season im very intrigued by what he will do. Despite his many years he has no expierence in this situation, and im freightened that he may not adapt. Personally thou i believe we must give him the chance to rebuild this franchise for at least a few years b4 a firing occurs. He is a great hockey mind afterall and i want to see him operate in a new situation b4 hes canned for being too old school. However i see the otherside of the coin too. Hes had 5+ years to retool us and couldnt. Hes lost touch. Hes also handed out the NTCs that will prevent us from a proper rebuilding. But still i feel he deserves the chance to try. His leadership of this team has given me many great memories and has made me a hockey fan for life. Ill follow this team to the gates of mordor itself. We have fallen into strange times. May the hockey gods have mercy on our souls. Merry christmas wing nerds

Honestly, while Coreau got the win, he's lucky he had one called back and a couple more didn't slip by. He looks promising, but i've watched the highlights a few times, and it's easy to tell he's not ready to be in the NHL full time yet. He plays a bit too deep in his crease and not coming out to challenge shooters, is fighting the puck, seems a bit thrown off by the speed of play, and the fact he takes up a lot of net kept a shot he wasn't ready for from goin in a couple times. Blashill has to start Mrazek next game no matter what.. Howard will be out at least a month, so the sooner he gets back in there and gets rolling again the better. If he starts Coreau, I will seriously question his sanity.

Yeah cut Mrazek or trade him for a 7th that's a good idea. You must be Richdgs second account. If he were 6'5" and could drop the mitts he would be the greatest thing since probert right?

#7th in draft as of now

I thought this thread was about Mantha, not Datsyuk. Mantha has impressed me with his play. He makes good passes, has a good shot and seems to have a knack for going to the net.

First step - Does Pavel Datsyuk have hands? Fingers? A pen? Oh he did? Oh ok. So it took his signatures to sign the contract. Next step - Does Datsyuk have a brain? Does he understand what 3 years means (translate that phrase from english into Russian if he needed it). Oh he does understand what 3 years is? Okay good. Last step - Sign it. Oh he did? Oh ok cool nobody put a gun to his head right? Ok sweet! We have a deal! Nah lets blame Holland for someone elses actions. Right on. There was a storm somewhere today and people got stuck in the snow, I blame Holland for it. Everytime people make excuses for someone and blame Holland or Howard or Mrazek blah blah blah, this is the type of irrational thought process I imagine that goes on.

And trading draft spots with Arizona and losing out on Chychrun. And yeah, I know he isn't a sure thing, but he's a lot closer to it than Cholowski. He's already in the NHL. Plus his playing style is something the Wings could really use.

Just tossing this one back up here.

It is laughable how many of you are acting as such howard lovers because he isnt total crap like the past 2 seasons. He hasnt won us anything since he got on our team years ago but you can all keep holding out hope. Btw he had lidstrom and rafalski and stuart on the team for a few years. Giving up on mrazek is a joke. Some people just do not understand hockey as well as others i suppose. They are the same people who think blashill isnt one of the main problems with this team.

Leafs, Rangers and even the Habs had higher payrolls back then. Buying the cup to me means: The cup has a price and you pay it without playing. Even if a team has the best roster by far the players still need to go out and do it, they need to be a team and not just a collection of very well paid superstars. Best example of that would be team Canada I mean Bergeron as a fourth line center? And yet everybody buys in. Tldr: there is no buying the cup

Positive posts are not allowed. THREAD LOCKED .....not really.

I've watched parts of it. The person below me is sad watching Pavel Datsyuk still play at such a high level.