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Nice try? I haven't even started trying. What statistical evidence do you have to prove 1 and 2 actually makes a difference? You're talking out of your ass. AA actually has more defensive zone starts than Nyquist does. 47.1 vs 44.2 %. His even strength line production comes from lesser teammates. Nyquist had the luxury of playing with Mantha (our best goal scorer) and Zetterberg (our best play maker). As far as Corsi/Fenwick, they're about the same. Takeaway and blocked shots rate favor AA, but still about the same. AA kills penalties and Nyquist doesn't. So I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that Nyquist is more rounded? In fact, because AA gets less time on PP and Even strength (since he has to spend some time on PK), I'd argue that Nyquist is actually is in a more favorable position (add in the fact that he got to play with our best goal scorer and playmaker). And lol at #3. AA had 9.4 shooting % while Nyquist had 9.9. Wow what a big difference. AA is younger, still has a lot to learn; cheaper. https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/gustav-nyquist https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/players/andreas-athanasiou https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/a/athanan01.html https://www.hockey-reference.com/players/n/nyquigu01.html

AA will score zero goals this season and will finish -497. Bank on it. He is quite possibly the worst player in the history of the National Hockey League.

I tend to agree. He's #4 or #5 in my book. If you had a clean slate and listed guys you wanted going forward to rebuild his name would fall 4 or 5 and that's where I view him. Larkin, Mantha, Zadina, AA. 12th best? What 4 defensemen would you take over AA? I can't think of one I'd keep over him. You guys are awfully harsh on him. He's about ready to bloom. We complain about offense and scoring then complain he can't play defense. Maybe if we had real defensemen on this team we could let our offense play offense.

Oh! Yes! Please! Let's have another (worthless) debate on the merits and flaws of the plus/minus stat. I heard a rumor that there are more advanced stats than +/-.

That was his best series sure, but he dominated the playoffs 3 years in a row as the stats show. So AA can take over games with his explosiveness? Really? Why hasn't he done so? 16 goals and 33 pts last year... You know who else got 16 goals and 33 pts last year? Frans Nielsen. And no, I wouldn't call him someone who takes over games either. Thought ppl would have learned that fact after Darren Helm. Breakaways are great and all, but a lot of the rest of his game is lacking. Which is not surprising, we've been warned about it since his junior days. 187 goals in 602 games is REALLY good for an NHL player. AA hasn't had much of a chance to see the playoffs yet, and maybe he can kick it on in the playoffs like Franzen could in his heyday, but I seriously doubt it. The only other guy I can remember who could turn it up in the playoffs like Franzen could was Danny Briere. It's what made Briere and Franzen rare/special players. Athanasiou literally had only 2 game-winning goals last season. If you have stats on game-tying goals please share. I can't think of many offensively minded players more different than AA and Franzen... AA can dangle you out of your pants, Franzen couldn't dangle at all. Franzen would actually win board battles, AA loses them left and right. AA is one of the fastest skaters in the league, Franzen was an average to below average skater at best. Franzen would play in front of the net, AA hardly does. Franzen was very underrated defensively, AA cheats on defense all the time. Literally the only thing they have in common is being Red Wings and having a decent wrister. Otherwise they're completely different players. Until AA gets a chance at the playoffs lets keep it real. In skill level they are 100% comparable, both skilled players one difference being size which the other makes up in speed. AA and Franzen are waaaaayyyyyy more comparable to Dats and Mule. That's a can a worms I don't even want to have trolled into Yes, and I don't see why this is hard to understand. Everyone is so enthralled by his break-aways, we forget that the rest of his game is severely lacking, and he certainly isn't putting up the offensive numbers to prop up those shortcomings. This notion that he is somehow a game-changer/put-the-team-on-my-back kinda player is laughable.

Only team with 0 trades naturally

https://www.rosterresource.com/nhl-how-acquired-breakdown/ This is an interesting feature.

Nope. Just someone who hates lazy arguments.

He'll get top minutes when he gives top effort. If it needs to be handed to him to be motivated, then trade him. That simple.

The good news about the AA-Franzen comparison: Franzen was wholly unremarkable for his first two NHL seasons (2005-06 and 2006-07). Actually, even his 2007-08 regular season wasn't anything terribly special (27 goals, 38 points).

For a guy calling someone else out for strawman-ing, you're reading an awful lot into the (para)phrase 'AA can turn it on and steal a game'. Funny that all this recent, and mostly unwarranted, negativity toward AA has become a comparison to Franzen of all people.

"I will fill the Wings' nets with pucks." - Zadina ohgodwe'vecreatedamonster

Disagree. Z, Mantha, Larkin, Nielsen, Green, Nyquist, and Daley are all better hockey players than AA.

So he basically stands at center ice, waits for a pass from the the other guys who are actually playing defense, then skates in and scores on a breakaway. And yet he still only scored 16 goals in 71 games played. I expect a lot more from a guy who is all offense. Imagine what his numbers would be if he actually played defense?

Yeah, the kid sure can cherry pick with the best of em. But guess what? That isn't winning hockey.

Mos(t) Def(initely) ...but let's be real. I don't doubt Karlsson is going to Tampa Bay, but there's certainly work to be done. Still think the Sens want to dump Bobby Ryan with Karlsson... but I doubt many folks are willing to take that on. ...but a third team gets involved? NJ or the Rags? Especially if the Rangers get involved. You know how they loooovvvveeee to work together. Callahan back to NYC?

The HYPE! is real, regardless of where he plays this season.

I would take a healthy Franzen over a healthy AA 7 days a week and twice on Tuesday. AA stands for Apolo Anton (Ohno). Just because he's fast doesn't make him a good hockey player.