Conflict in the Crease

[MabusIncarnate 5,359]

Discuss and debate our goaltending situation here. Should Mrazek be going full on right now, starting all games except back to backs? Is Howard being overused? Or should Howard's early performance be reflected on his playtime and does Mrazek need to earn his spot as the undisputed number one for the Wings?

[Hockeymom1960 5,107]

For me there's not a conflict.  I think you should play your #1 goalie and not have a goalie war.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Simple fact is Mrazek hasnt grabbed ahold and claimed the starter as his own and Howard has played strong enough to put his name back into consideration. Regardless of whos in net the other 18 guys in the lineup are not that good and are the real teams issues. Whos #1 and #2 doesn't change the real weakness of the team.

2 minutes ago, Hockeymom1960 said:

For me there's not a conflict.  I think you should play your #1 goalie and not have a goalie war.

I see what your saying HM and I agree with that philosophy but only when you have an establish go to starter. Mrazek has shown flashes of greatness but in two seasons has not shown he can be the heavy workload starter while keeping up a high standard of play. With that scenario you need a timeshare in net. Currently Mrazek is on pace to play in over 2/3rds of the season games. Thats perfectly fine for a young goalie trying to prove himself. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by GoalieManPat

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Goalie competition is a very positive thing.  Having said that...Mrazek needs to show more consistency to take on a larger role. Especially with Howard playing well. 

[gcom007 1,465]

This will be fun to revisit in a month...

[e_prime 1,936]

26 minutes ago, Hockeymom1960 said:

For me there's not a conflict.  I think you should play your #1 goalie and not have a goalie war.

So... who's your number one? 

 

Quote

Craig Custance of ESPN: It’s still early in the season, but Red Wings goaltenders Petr Mrazek and Jimmy Howard have put up some good numbers. Despite some teams having struggling goalies or injuries, the Red Wings haven’t received any calls.

“I haven’t really had any calls on anybody on anything right now,” Holland said. “It’s early in the year. We’re all trying to see what we’ve got.”

It does sound like the Wings may not be interested in moving one even if teams were calling. A two goalie system may be part of their plan.

“We were hoping, believing, the one-two punch we had in goal was going to be a strength. In the early going, it has been,” Holland said. “Touch wood, we’ve got both guys healthy. I think Jimmy is coming in understanding that Petr Mrazek is the No. 1 goaltender. He’s the backup. I think you have to practice different. You have a different mental outlook. … He’s going to play this weekend. In sports, every night is new.”

 

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

Lets look at this from a different angle for those that want Mrazek playing 70+ games. He is the future of this team no doubt. This team needs Howard to get into games and play well though. They tried to trade him all off season and nobody bit. He has no trade value and there was no guarantee LV would take him. They need him to play in 25+ games and to play well. If he keeps playing like he is then come trade deadline someone will definitely be offering up for him and at the very least he probably gets taken in the expansion draft and the Wings get some cap relief. If they dont play him we will be in this same two goaltender boat next year so everyone needs to really push for him to play well and get in games.

[e_prime 1,936]

^This.   AND DEPTH.

[Richdg 267]

You play the hot hand. Right now Howard is playing better than Mrasek. A month from now that may reverse. But you always play the better guy.

[wings_fanatic 677]

27 minutes ago, Richdg said:

You play the hot hand. Right now Howard is playing better than Mrasek. A month from now that may reverse. But you always play the better guy.

This is ridiculous. Mrazek is our starter. He has played very well this season. He has had 1 bad game but other than that has been great. You are not going to start giving howard more starts simply because his numbers are better in the 3 games he has played. O and in these games blash tries to start howard against teams he has always played well against. Talk about sillyness. You would destroy petrs confidence if jimmy starts getting more starts then him despite the fact that he, as our established starter, has played very well. Good thing you are not in charge of our goalies.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

But is Mrazek really the #1? Both were excellent last year for a stretch and both were hot garbage for a stretch. I haven't seen anything to say he's for sure the better goalie right now.

Regardless, having your starter play in 50-55 games is ideal. Keeps him busy but doesn't burn him out.

[Richdg 267]

48 minutes ago, wings_fanatic said:

This is ridiculous. Mrazek is our starter. He has played very well this season. He has had 1 bad game but other than that has been great. You are not going to start giving howard more starts simply because his numbers are better in the 3 games he has played. O and in these games blash tries to start howard against teams he has always played well against. Talk about sillyness. You would destroy petrs confidence if jimmy starts getting more starts then him despite the fact that he, as our established starter, has played very well. Good thing you are not in charge of our goalies.

Numbers don't lie. Our G position is not our problem in any way so let's not freak out. But right now Howard is playing better than Mrasek. That is the trueth. By playing Howard more we do 2 things: 1 have a chance to win more and 2-this might be even more important, create some type of trade value for Howard. Right now there are at least 3 teams that have G issues, 2 of which are PO teams: Kings and Islanders. That means there is potential to move him, free up the cap, and improve our team. The only way that happens is if Howard is playing at a high level as a starter.

As for Mrasek we don't know if he is a true #1 G yet. Yes he makes some great saves but he also has games were he couldn't hit water falling out of a boat. Last year he was not the #1 all year. He split time and it help both guys and the team.

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

This is ridiculous. Mrazek is our starter. He has played very well this season. He has had 1 bad game but other than that has been great. You are not going to start giving howard more starts simply because his numbers are better in the 3 games he has played. O and in these games blash tries to start howard against teams he has always played well against. Talk about sillyness. You would destroy petrs confidence if jimmy starts getting more starts then him despite the fact that he, as our established starter, has played very well. Good thing you are not in charge of our goalies.

If Petrs confidence is destroyed because Howard is getting starts then Mrazek is not mentally strong enough to be a starter. He needs to see it as a challenge and raise his game. And let's be real. Mrazek is not an established starter. He was named the starter and is hopefully the goalie of the future but in no way has established himself as the starter. If he can lock the position as his own for 3 or 4 years of top notch play then he can be considered an established starter. Right now he's a guy with great potential but hasn't proven he can perform for an entire season. Guys like King Henrik are established starters because they've performed for years. Mrazek has yet to prove he can do that.

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[kickazz 5,459]

I think some people are in denial about Mrazek.

He's one of the most inconsistent goalies in recent Red Wings history. The guy has already been pulled like 8 times in his career and hasn't even had 2 full seasons yet. I mean I like the guy, he's amazing when he's at his best. But come on, when he's bad... he's REALLY bad. Sometimes goalies have bad games, no big deal, but Mrazek has gone through long stretches of being bad. This is exactly why having Howard actually works out. 

Yes he should be the #1. No he should not be playing 70 games. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by kickazz

[kliq 3,763]

edit....I accidentally erased my post when trying to make a small change.

Edited November 16, 2016 by kliq

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Mrazek is still fairly shiny and new. Give him til the end of the year and he'll have almost as many detractors as Howard and Osgood before him.

[kickazz 5,459]

Mrazek still learning imo. He's one of the few goalies out there that can adapt really well to different situations. But like I said, inconsistency is there. 

Edited October 31, 2016 by kickazz

[puckloo39 5,686]

Mrazek doesn't have the advantage of a truly elite goalie in front of him.  Not that I dislike Howard, I think he is a fine goalie.  Our D is suspect, so he's no different than any other top goaltender with a porous D and inconsistency/turnovers/brain farts on a given night.

Other goalies like Legacy and Howard to an extent had an actual #1 (Hasek, Ozzie) to lead the tending, while they developed their games.  On occasion it made them look better than they actually are/were, since they had the freedom to learn from and fall back to the veteran proven goalie.

We threw Mraz into the fires of Hell (what else can you call Detroit goaltending) and he was great, for a rookie - even spectacular at times.  It is a lot to expect elite-level play from a youngster like him --  but he seems pretty tough mentally, so I expect he will be our future.  

Who is the goalie coach right now, by the way? Could that be part of the problem here?

[Echolalia 2,961]

13 hours ago, wings_fanatic said:

This is ridiculous. Mrazek is our starter. He has played very well this season. He has had 1 bad game but other than that has been great. You are not going to start giving howard more starts simply because his numbers are better in the 3 games he has played. O and in these games blash tries to start howard against teams he has always played well against. Talk about sillyness. You would destroy petrs confidence if jimmy starts getting more starts then him despite the fact that he, as our established starter, has played very well. Good thing you are not in charge of our goalies.

I disagree that he's been playing well.  He's had flashes of brilliance in almost every game he's played, but that doesn't negate the soft goals he's given up (and he's given up many).  Right now Mrazek is 29th in save percentage and 33rd in goals against.  He's played 7 more periods than Howard has thus far so they're workload isn't all that dissimilar.  Meanwhile Howard leads the league in both categories. 

The main objective for the Wings over these 82 games is getting into the playoffs, not gift-wrapping starts to an inconsistent goalie based on how he played last year, or at Juniors, or during that one period last week.  Until Mrazek can prove he's ready for those kind of numbers, a balance between starts is only appropriate, and if one goalie falters the other should theoretically be ready to take the lead, as it was last year.  The debate from the pov from a lot of posters here is whether Mrazek should get more starts than he's currently getting.  In light of the above I think a more appropriate question would be should Jimmy be getting more starts, and I think if he continues to play well they should go back to a 50/50 scenario, then eventually to a clear cut number 1, provided one of the goalies proves they can handle the workload.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

I have no opinion on this.  I guess I don't mind them sharing playing time like it's been so far.  Neither has stood out and both have been fairly solid.  This defense, however, needs a Hasek or a Tretiak behind it.  

[NitzGuy 38]

Guys, It's easy.

Backup plays Defense.

Boom. Two birds one stone.

 

But somebody else has to play the puck for Jimmy. Obviously.

 

[gcom007 1,465]

Again, all for Howard playing well; very happy about it and for him. I hope he keeps it up. 

But even the squirrelly Wings management that has balanced these weird 1a-1b goalie situations for years is now saying Mrazek is the starter!

Even Howard has acknowledged that Mrazek is the starter!

Mrazek still has plenty to learn, and consistency is one of those things. But you're flat out crazy if you really think there's any real debate about who the starter is at this point inside the organization.

And if Mrazek continues to struggle with consistency, it's not going to be Jimmy Howard who saves us in the long run. Either way it goes, Howard's on the tail end of a rather inconsistent career as a starter himself. I'll be shocked if he signs another deal as a starter, with the Wings or otherwise.

As others have said, Mrazek is in no way in danger of losing his starter status the way he's playing. Howard's played great and has the stats to back it up, but as said, his starts have been cherry picked, and there's no way any goalie keeps up the numbers he's put up so far.

Again, this will be funny to revisit in a month.

P.S. Mrazek's been great in the playoffs two years in a row, and the way he pulled it together last year coming in cold after a rough couple months says a lot to me. The guy knows how to find that extra gear for the playoffs, and he's just getting started. I wouldn't bet against him at this point. 

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

45 minutes ago, gcom007 said:

P.S. Mrazek's been great in the playoffs two years in a row, and the way he pulled it together last year coming in cold after a rough couple months says a lot to me. The guy knows how to find that extra gear for the playoffs, and he's just getting started. I wouldn't bet against him at this point. 

You are right he was great coming in the last three games last playoff. Until he flubbed a pass with 90 seconds left and got caught behind the net on the game/series winner. Thats the problem with his game right now. He can be great a lot and then completely throw away all his good work on one play. I dont think anyone is truly debating that Mrazek is not the future for the club but based on boths current play Howard early this year Howard deserves more games and thats a good thing for the club. 

[Dabura 12,232]

COREAU OR BUST

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

1 hour ago, gcom007 said:

Again, all for Howard playing well; very happy about it and for him. I hope he keeps it up. 

But even the squirrelly Wings management that has balanced these weird 1a-1b goalie situations for years is now saying Mrazek is the starter!

Even Howard has acknowledged that Mrazek is the starter!

Mrazek still has plenty to learn, and consistency is one of those things. But you're flat out crazy if you really think there's any real debate about who the starter is at this point inside the organization.

And if Mrazek continues to struggle with consistency, it's not going to be Jimmy Howard who saves us in the long run. Either way it goes, Howard's on the tail end of a rather inconsistent career as a starter himself. I'll be shocked if he signs another deal as a starter, with the Wings or otherwise.

As others have said, Mrazek is in no way in danger of losing his starter status the way he's playing. Howard's played great and has the stats to back it up, but as said, his starts have been cherry picked, and there's no way any goalie keeps up the numbers he's put up so far.

Again, this will be funny to revisit in a month.

P.S. Mrazek's been great in the playoffs two years in a row, and the way he pulled it together last year coming in cold after a rough couple months says a lot to me. The guy knows how to find that extra gear for the playoffs, and he's just getting started. I wouldn't bet against him at this point. 

I don't think anyone has said Mrazek isn't the #1. From what I can tell, this discussion was trigger by those that argued that Howard should barely ever play. Mrazek can still be an acknowledged #1 without playing 70+ games.

And for your argument that Howard's games have been cherry-picked, I disagree. He played against NY and the Sharks - those are 2 of the best teams we've played, i think. Along with the blues, they're the only teams that we've played that are ahead in the standings (or tied if you discount games played). 

I'm not sure why anyone is arguing that either has played badly. I didn't see this last game were Mrazek was pulled, but I think they've both been great despite usually getting peppered as we often are greatly outshot. I think our goaltending duo is one of the greatest strengths of the team. We'll let Howard get a bunch of games and Mrazek won't be worn out for the playoffs (fingers crosses) and will be less likely to get injured.