Is the right hockey move to trade Jonathan Toews?

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

Toews isn't worth that cap hit.

[kliq 3,763]

3 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Yah, you're right.  EA sports keeps putting Toews in the top 5 forwards year after year, Yzerman compared himself to Toews, Toews has 3 cups, a Selke, a Messier leadership award, triple gold status, and 5 time NHL all star.  He's terrible!

If your best argument to support Toews is EA Sports, I think the debate is already over. Hasn't @kickazz already proved you wrong numerous times about this?

Never said he was terrible, no need to get hyperbolic to push your weak argument. Remember, this thread was to discuss if it is a better move for Chicago to trade Toews and use his 10.5 mil cap-hit elsewhere, not is Toews good or not. I do think Toews is an excellent player, but he is paid like an elite player (he is literally paid more then every player in the NHL other then Kane) but in actuality he is simply just a very good player.

[Echolalia 2,961]

9 hours ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

Takes more than one player to win....or lose a series.

 

absolutely.  But other than Kane, nobody else on that team is making remotely what Toews is.  The missed assignments, giveaways, etc are much harder to swallow from the 10.5M guy than the 2.5M guy

[kliq 3,763]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I posted the article of kickazz' idol comparing himself to Toews.  Never heard a peep after that.  It was a showstopper, bro-methius.

Ya that's not true.

Either way, I agree with him. I think Toews is a very similar player to Yzerman with one big difference, that difference being he is much less skilled then Stevie. With Yzerman being the most humble athlete ever, he would never actually say that, but 99% of people who actually watched them play would agree.

I will say though, Toews in his prime did play a similar game as the past his prime Yzerman. Toews is a few years will likely be half the player Stevie was in his 30's.

[kliq 3,763]

2 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Good thing Toews has already accomplished more than Yzerman did, then.  

lol, you lost you Bill like magic, unable to bait like you used to. 

Like Toews you are past your prime. Come on, that deserves a spot in the burn book.

Edited April 22, 2017 by kliq

[kliq 3,763]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

I am not chalking this debate up as a W, btw.  I won in the other thread, and this was just a re-closing of that old argument.  So you don't take an "L" here.  Just looking very homerish, is all.  Captain Serious is well respected around the league and internationally for his stellar play.

Like your avatar, you held on as long as you could but in end we all know what happened.

[Dabura 12,232]

Stan Bowman's top priority should be getting out from under the Seabrook contract.

32-year-old middle-pairing defenseman in decline. $6.875M x 7 years. Very nope. Much woof. Poor doge.

[puckbags 863]

I thought we would be a good trade partner with them but seeing those salaries it doesn't seem to make sense. I know they had interest in Gus around the trade deadline but the only logical contract coming back our way that plays D is Hjalmarrson but I don't think they are trading him.  Man I thought we had contract issues.  Crawford and Seabrook both at 6 + million and now the Panarin contract will be on the books at 6+ next year + 21 milliion tied up in Toews and Kane.  Looks good on them. Their play reminds me so much of how the Wings played after 08-09, they look tired, still good enough to make the playoffs but it would take an unreal hot streak to make a run in the playoffs. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

If they can trade Kane or Toews, either one, they should do it.  They could get a huge return, especially Kane, and it would free up enough cap space so they'd be ok.  Kane is at the top of his game now, but how long is he going to keep scoring like that?  Once his production dips, he's going to be an albatross because that's about all he can do.  Toews at least plays two way hockey and is a leader.

[Andy Pred 48 337]

Vegas could suit Kane 

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

14 hours ago, kliq said:

Ya that's not true.

Either way, I agree with him. I think Toews is a very similar player to Yzerman with one big difference, that difference being he is much less skilled then Stevie. With Yzerman being the most humble athlete ever, he would never actually say that, but 99% of people who actually watched them play would agree.

I will say though, Toews in his prime did play a similar game as the past his prime Yzerman. Toews is a few years will likely be half the player Stevie was in his 30's.

Yzerman was a much better offensive player in his prime.  How many times has Tayes even finished top 10 in scoring? Tayes right now is the player Yzerman was in his mid 30's.  More focused on two-way play and not putting up the big numbers.

Edited April 22, 2017 by GMRwings1983

[kliq 3,763]

10 minutes ago, GMRwings1983 said:

Yzerman was a much better offensive player in his prime.  How many times has Tayes even finished top 10 in scoring? Tayes right now is the player Yzerman was in his mid 30's.  More focused on two-way play and not putting up the big numbers.

I 100% agree with you.

[Wing Across The Pond 196]

On 21/04/2017 at 7:48 AM, kliq said:

I feel like a lot of people are voting based on this logic which isnt want I was trying to assess. The point of the poll is do you think they should move Toews if there is a market for him.

Ah okay, in that case yes, in a heartbeat. Unfortunately with his contract I don't think the market will be there. As I said, more likely to be there for Kane.

Edit: the problem isn't even "10.5m is too much", it's 6 more years. He's 29 at the end of this month, and he could probably play to a good standard when he's 35. But man no one is taking that money for that term. Even if the market is there to move him, the next market isn't going to be and that will put some teams off

Edited April 22, 2017 by Wing Across The Pond

[brett 1,029]

yeah sorry i would take toews...well only if they retained salary

under 30 top line center. that we lack or will be lacking soon

Edited April 23, 2017 by brett

[Dabura 12,232]

3 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

If Chicago offers Toews and Kane to us, we take them right away.  For anything, anyone.  Everyone needs to stop kidding themselves around here.

That's a combined $21M against our cap for the next infinity years, and their best days are already behind them.

F*** that.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Yah, 
 
Howard, Kronwall, Nielsen, and Abdelkader is a way better use of 21 million.

You think anyone is taking that pile of steaming hodor? Hodor that.

BTW I'm now substituting every cuss word with hodor. Hodor you, profanity filter.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[Dabura 12,232]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Howard, Kronwall, Nielsen, and Abdelkader is a way better use of 21 million.

Howard has two more years left on his deal.

Kronwall has two more years left on his deal.

Nielsen is $5.25M against the cap for the next five years.

Abdelkader is $4.25M against the cap for the next six years.

Nielsen's cap hit + Abdelkader's cap hit = $9.5M.

Kane is $10.5M against the cap for the next six years.

Toews is $10.5M against the cap for the next six years.

Kane's cap hit + Toews' cap hit = $21M.

For the next few years, the Wings should be focusing on drafting and developing a new Cup-worthy core and freeing up cap space when possible. The Wings should not be looking to add veteran players with $10.5M cap hits. I'm not saying Kane and Toews aren't great players. I'm saying the Wings should want no part of their contracts. Maybe if Chicago eats some salary I'm slightly more into the idea. ........But even then, no.

[Dabura 12,232]

5 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

So we are going to ignore DeKeyser, Ericsson, Nyquist, and Helm?  Ehat about their 17 million a year for the squadoosh we get back?  Like I said, the 21 million on Toews and Kane has been WELL spent.  They have brought cups in return.

I don't care that they've won Cups. Their best days are behind them, their combined cap hit is $21M for the next six years, we're up against the cap even without the COMBINED TWENTY ONE MILLION DOLLAR CAP HIT, and it's not like we have a bunch of really attractive pieces that would both interest Chicago and free up the cap space we'd need to add the COMBINED TWENTY ONE MILLION DOLLAR CAP HIT.

Your argument basically boils down to "Kane and Toews are great and any team would love to have them." Which is true enough. However, this is a salary cap league. It's not as simple as saying "These guys are better than our guys, so we should do everything in our power to acquire them." We're a basement team and we're up against the cap. Getting younger and faster and slowly trimming our existing financial fat is our path forward. Adding the two biggest contracts in the league would be antithetical to that plan and could potentially kill our rebuild before it even begins.

[kliq 3,763]

56 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I don't care that they've won Cups. Their best days are behind them, their combined cap hit is $21M for the next six years, we're up against the cap even without the COMBINED TWENTY ONE MILLION DOLLAR CAP HIT, and it's not like we have a bunch of really attractive pieces that would both interest Chicago and free up the cap space we'd need to add the COMBINED TWENTY ONE MILLION DOLLAR CAP HIT.

Your argument basically boils down to "Kane and Toews are great and any team would love to have them." Which is true enough. However, this is a salary cap league. It's not as simple as saying "These guys are better than our guys, so we should do everything in our power to acquire them." We're a basement team and we're up against the cap. Getting younger and faster and slowly trimming our existing financial fat is our path forward. Adding the two biggest contracts in the league would be antithetical to that plan and could potentially kill our rebuild before it even begins.

He's just trolling, it doesn't matter what you say as it won't make a difference.

[Buppy 1,720]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

So we are going to ignore DeKeyser, Ericsson, Nyquist, and Helm?  Ehat about their 17 million a year for the squadoosh we get back?  Like I said, the 21 million on Toews and Kane has been WELL spent.  They have brought cups in return.

Actually, they've lost in the first round both years since they started paying them that much.

And I'm no doctor, but I doubt either of them would produce much of anything after we chopped them into pieces so they could also play defense and goalie.

[Krayzie_Bone 58]

A few years ago he was better than crosby now he sucks? I don't follow the league very close anymore except for the red wings but I can't believe Toews is as bad as some are saying in this thread even though they got bounced early the last two years.

Edited April 23, 2017 by Krayzie_Bone

[kliq 3,763]

1 hour ago, Krayzie_Bone said:

A few years ago he was better than crosby now he sucks? I don't follow the league very close anymore except for the red wings but I can't believe Toews is as bad as some are saying in this thread even though they got bounced early the last two years.

He was never better then Crosby (he was never even close), and he doesn't suck now. Anyone who says either of these statements are just talking in extreme's.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 hours ago, kliq said:

He was never better then Crosby (he was never even close), and he doesn't suck now. Anyone who says either of these statements are just talking in extreme's.

Toews sucks

[Keep Your Stick On the Ice 67]

This thread is funnier than hell.

[kliq 3,763]

4 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Call me crazy, but I'm thinking a guy like Toews might be useful in either DC, or Vegas.

Straight up trade for Ovechkin, or Toews to Vegas for pick/s.

EDIT - considering McPhee drafted Ovie, and is now the Vegas GM - maybe he makes a move.

I dont think it would ever happen, but Ovie on LV would give the team instant credibility. I would guess the Ovie LV jersey would become the best selling jersey in the league.