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Really, people? This is how you show gratitude and respect for the guy who took a heartbreak of wreckage, turned it around, and gave us four more Stanley Cups and made us the envy of the league? Not to mention whatever he's done with the Tigers and for the city of Detroit and his charitable contributions. I hope some day you get old and see how you like it. Kids these days.

I was expecting this thread to be something along the lines of "Pavel Datsyuk (34) was arrested today in Detroit Michigan for charges of grand theft puck in the offensive zone".

I think it's a good spot for Bert, he can move up if needed but at this point of his career he's a 3rd liner and 2nd unit PP guy. As for Cleary his spot should be about 50 rows up in the press box.

What he did, he may have gained some profit on yes. More improratantly it helped somewhat revive a dying city of Detroit year after year, which eventually grew more into shambles, which could not have been solved by a superbowl, stanley cup and whatever else

Has anyone noticed he looks EXACTLY like Harpo Marx? What are his mental faculties like? When he accepted the pennant trophy for the Tigers last fall, he didn't seem to know where he was, as if he is going senile.

Yeah, I don't disagree. However, I also don't want to get this thread derailed with Franzen talk because it tends to devolve pretty quickly. I honestly think there should be a "Franzen" thread pinned to the top of the forum in perpetuity so that it would stay out of all the other threads. So back to the topic at hand, Suter's letdown isn't a surprise given that he was never as good as he was made out to be. And Weber's letdown isn't as surprise given that he now has to shoulder more of the defensive burden as Nashville failed to replace an overhyped Suter with anyone even as good as he was.

Don't get me wrong, based on what little I've seen and heard of Suter's performance to date, I certainly wouldn't be happy with his play so far given his paycheck. But the OP was drawing conclusions about how tied to one another Suter and Weber's success was. It could ultimately be true, but given all the variables involved, 8 games is a ridiculously small sample to draw any reasonable conclusions about that. Especially when we're coming off a lockout into a shortened season with no real training camp.

not to mention Parise is playing insanely well, like he should be for what he is getting paid, that transition should be almost seemless

I understand what you're saying and it makes sense, but I don't think it's premature to pass any judgements, it's just premature to form conclusions. It's not unrealistic to expect "elite" players to play like it when they move from one set of line mates to another, or one system to another. Maybe a slight slump is anticipated, but certainly there's every expectation that a star will continue to be a star once he's been moved. It's not unreasonable to expect Suter to play like a number one defender if that's what he really is, and for any noticeable lapses in defense to come from the half assed d-corps they put around him. That would be fair. But he hasn't looked that good, on his own merit, thus far. Certainly not like the elite top partner guy he's getting paid to be.

Who in the minors is better than Quincey? As for Cleary, you only assume Tatar or Nyquist would be any better. You can only assume they will be successful at all, especially if they're put in Cleary's role. If Tatar comes in and makes a real impact, I think we'll find a way to keep him up. If not, it's better to leave him in GR, at least until the trade deadline. You don't dump assets to make lateral moves.

Neither of them are as bad as they look right now, but then again Suter isn't as good as he looked in the past. Thank god Detroit didn't go out and spend that money on him, what a giant f***up. Still not sure how anybody (other teams included) thought this guy was as valuable as they did. Unreal.

40 pts? I will willing to take all bets on that..he wouldn't get 40 pts in a 82 game season.

Remember when all the Minnesota fans were predicting a dynasty over this summer? Good times.

I don't see what the debate is, why does it matter what we think and say about Backes if it's something that is based off of an opinion, it's not like a being a dirty player is like winning a Hart trophy, it's mostly based of personal views. I go to many other team's boards and I wouldn't care if I saw another fanbase complaining about Kronwall, Stuart, Tootoo, or Bertuzzi etc. being dirty, even if they didn't perform a dirty play it would be so far down the list of concerns and issues for me to talk about. St. Louis is looking really good this year, the mix of physical play, goaltending/defense, and young talented offensive players should be a really exciting time over in St. Louis, I'd figure it would be more interesting to see how we all think the future looks for both of our teams, what it looks like from another perspective etc. Rather than arguing over a meaningless opinion on a very physical hard to play against player being called dirty. Backes might or might not be dirty, it's not like there is one line of reasoning for determining if a player is dirty, each person can come to their own conclusions based on what they see. Just my two cents, I personally don't think Backes is dirty, but he is damn tough to play against, plays on the line, sometimes crosses it, so I'm not surprised that fans of a rival team think he's dirty, it's not a huge stretch.

A link to an article would be nice.

They figured people will need it the way Quincey and Cleary are playing.

It was okay to be sentimental when you had the future of the team cemented in Z, Dats, Lids, but now we can't afford to let our young talent waste away to allow aging vets to retire in peace in the Red Wings country club locker room. holland needs to start seeing this.

Unfortunately when even the coaches say the best players play, there has to be someone you can make a case for thats been better the cleary. If thats not the case, wings need a better bottom 6. It's a "what have you done for me lately" expectation, because if there wasn't one, i then ask where the hell did drapes go?!?!

Don't get him started

He's been playing decent out there this season, atleast the past 4 games i'd give him. His saving grace is the fact that he's used as a center in our system, and our depth there isn't that great. I would say that his value is going up, and he'd be apart of a package, but i'm not sure we want to get rid of the 4th line center with helmer going down so frequently. He's been on the PK also, and doing a decent job. Axe, by the way buddy, this is YOUR thread my man.

Babcock needs to get Cleary the hell off the PP. He's useless.

Same ol wings. Shut it down after a two goal lead.

The Diva from Geneva. ohyesidid.

I honestly think after he blows up a few defensemen on the forecheck people around here will start appreciating what he can do. The Dallas Drake comparisons are not too far off. Good forecheck, good skating, finishes hits, and will scrap if needs be. I'd say he'll win everyone over in the first three games.

Sign Kyle Wellwood, place him on a line with Tatar... the Meat & Potatoes line is born. /thread