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You mean the pre salary cap Ken Holland? The one with unlimited resources to get whoever he wanted? He's trying to get him on a good contact. It's hard because of the circumstances. What do you pay a top 4 young defenseman who wasn't drafted, came out of college, and has only played like 80 NHL games? Who knows. My guess is around 3 million on a 2 or 3 year deal. But it's not that easy. And how do you know Holland is the one paying hardball? He could be offering good deals and DK could be turning them down. Who knows what's going on.

Anyone who knows me on these boards at this point knows I'm no longer a Holland supporter, but you've got to be reaching here to be making a big deal out of this. Babcock should get paid, and will get paid, and Holland won't lowball him on money. There's no need and even he's not stupid enough to take that chance. He's just defending the line for the media. If Babcock leaves, it won't be about money. Any amount of money any team would reasonably throw at him would be matched by the Wings.

DD is an undrafted player with less than a full season's worth of games played who has limited offensive upside and still has work to do defensively and getting stronger. Those aren't the guys you sign to 6 year $30 mil contracts.

Jagr is still damn good. Alfie was still very good as well, when not dealing with his injuries. Call me naive, but these guys love the game - they not going to "just hang on for the sake of it". They'll spend the rest of their lives wishing they could still play, so why not try to play as long as it's still possible and you think you can be effective?

*runs into thread* DID SOMEONE SAY HAMPUS MELEN?! That's it he's a superstar. Everyone on the Hampus wagon!

^ Exactly. I love DD but if any of you armchair GMs think it's easy to negotiate a contract with a kid who has only played 70 games or whatever, then you're snorting the crack dust, plain and simple. To me, DD is to the D what Tatar is to the offence. Both have had similar career arcs so far, except Tatar has a Calder Cup MVP under his belt and almost scored 20 last year in his first almost full season. If you ask me, something like 2.75-3M/year for 3 years would have gotten this deal done a month ago. I have a hard time thinking Holland wouldn't offer that. Makes me think that it's DD's camp that is being unrealistic, not Holland.

Soooo apparently if Mantha plays less than 10 NHL games, his entry-level deal doesn't even start until next year... Source That's quite the loophole...

I don't doubt that there is a chance Mantha could suit up for the Wings at some point this season, but I still say it's a zero percent chance he makes the team out of camp. Let's see how he adapts to the pro game down in Grand Rapids first, and then we can re-evaluate this whole thing in a couple months. How many injuries will there be in the first couple months and will Mantha dominate the American League like so many are expecting?...

Signing Quincey to that ridiculous contract is what sparked all of this. He knows he's a better player and feels embarrassed he has to settle for a fraction of what Quincey got.

Well when he signed his current contract he WAS the highest paid coach, so I think he will be again. Probably will end up around 3m/season Take bowmans teams in those 9 years and compare it to babs teams. Babs best team wasn't nearly as good as bowmans

When and where did he get the 2nd Cup? I'm sorry, but I'd respectfully disagree. Babs is a great coach, but several people have said it, these guys are paid to perform and rewarded for it. At a certain level, though, two guys can't get credit for the same job. Is Holland putting the right players on the roster or is Babs extracting more from less? My point is - if Holland is putting the 'right' guys on the roster, Babs isn't getting enough out of them and, conversely, if Babs is getting the Wings into the playoffs with a sub-par squad, then Holland isn't doing his job. If everyone in management is doing their jobs, how are we a 'borderline' playoff team? Holland already got an extension and credit for his job... If Babcock feels he 'deserves' to become the highest paid coach in the NHL, I hope Holland does let him walk. I'm not trying to take anything away from Babcock, but he did take over the defending President's Trophy winner in 05-06, a team which had made the playoffs 14 consecutive times, and three years later he won his only Stanley Cup. I'm not trying to say he's not successful or that he doesn't get a ton out of his players. But a good coach in a great organization has to be that much better to stand out. Compare Babcock's Wings to Bowman's Wings - 9 playoff seasons each - 1 Cup (Babs) to 3 Cups (Bowman) - 2 President's Trophies (Babs) to 3 for Bowman - Bowman has an Adams' while Babs does not - Babs has an edge in regular season win pct. but in the playoffs - Babs 0.542 to Bowman 0.642. Again, not saying Babs isn't a solid coach, but the Wings won't fold as an organization without him.

This is why I'm inclined to think he stays on for at least a couple more years. Mike Babcock is an alpha male. And he has an ego. (He wants to be the "biggest swinging **** in the room, any room.") And he believes in "Leaving No Doubt" that you are as good at your job as you'd have people believe you are. And, at this stage in his career, he wants a challenge that's going to push him to learn some new things and become an even better coach and hockey mind and person. And, finally, he believes in being a Good Man and doing The Right Thing and facing things head-on, head held high, "No big deal, I got this, because if I don't got this, well, that's just unacceptable. Because I'm Mike Babcock, and I'd like to think I'm a Good Man." Further, he's coached Lidstrom, and also Datsyuk in Datsyuk's prime, winning a Cup with them. All of this, taken together, says to me that he's going to want to guide the Wings back to contention and win another Cup with them in two or three years. Heading to Toronto or Pittsburgh would be easy, expected. A lesser coach might do that. A lesser man might do that. Power, money, media fellatio - all tempting. But is that why Mike Babcock's in this business? Not saying he doesn't want those things, but I feel like he'd want that golden ticket to Willy Wonka's factory only after he's "Left No Doubt" and helped coach a team that everyone had written off back to the top of the mountain. That way, there's no "Oh, that Mike Babcock. He's a great coach, sure, but you have to admit he's overrated. He gets Anaheim to Game 7 of the SCF, but he can't get the job done. He realizes this was a miracle run for the Ducks that he's not going to be able to replicate and he jumps ship to perennial contender Detroit. Any coach could've won a couple Cups with those Wings teams, and, actually, he only managed to win one. And those Olympic gold medals? Any person with half a brain could've coached those Canada teams to gold. Then, when things got really hard in Detroit and Lidstrom was nowhere to be found, he jumped ship again. This is a guy who, while certainly brilliant, knows how to pick his spots to enhance his aura. I don't rate him much higher than Dan Bylsma, tbh. If Bylsma had coached those Olympic teams, he'd have one Cup and a couple gold medals, same as Babcock. Scotty Bowman was - and is - a living legend. That's a man who'd really earned the right to pick a role of his choosing in an organization of his choosing. Babcock isn't necessarily the best coach in the league right now, let alone a Scotty Bowman. And no one knows that better than Babcock. That's why he left Detroit instead of sticking it out and trying to prove beyond any doubt that, like some crazy SEAL Ninja Jedi Master, you could dump him in the middle of the ocean and when you get home that night he'll be making love with your woman in your bed, because he's just that damn good."

He should be at like 3m maaaaaaybe 3.5m. 5m is too high lol

From what i've read, in 2013 Carlyle wasn't even top ten. I think one could argue that Babs should be the highest paid coach in the league, but double the salary of the #2 paid coach is going way too far IMO.

If that's what it takes sure. Babcock has all the leverage here his salary doesn't count against the cap and his resume is unreal. I don't think Quenville is the highest paid coach, I think it's Carlyle

You think he should be paid double what the highest paid coach is getting? Don't get me wrong, I love Babs, but that seems a bit ridiculous.

so like stamkos then?

So 3 games, Mantha has 4 g, 2 a?

Jagr is still an incredible player. Wish the Wings signed him. Datsyuk and him would be magic, good luck getting the puck off those two.

I just got back from my trip to Traverse City and other parts of Michigan. I was able to catch the Prospects Tournament on Friday, but I didn't go on Saturday due to other plans (I got engaged). I strongly recommend attending the tournament. We planned our trip around seeing the Wings, and the game was one of the best parts of the trip. Below are some short impressions from the game. The play was a little sloppy- most of the players haven't played together- and players who hustled and were hard on the puck were most noticeable. Mantha- Had two excellent goals. The first was a nice snipe, and the second was batted in from mid air. He seemed very composed, made few mistakes, and controlled the play well. He was the Wings' best forward, and I'm excited to see him in preseason. From what I saw he didn't look NHL ready, but he was also playing with new teammates. Athanasiou- Dangerous. He has great speed and an excellent shot, and was exciting each time he touched the puck. He played a little recklessly, and was hit hard a few times throughout the game. The raw talent is there, and I am excited to see how he can put his shot, speed, and tenacity together. IMO he was more exciting to watch than Mantha. Frk- Fast, hustles, and has a great work ethic. I am hoping he can continue to improve in GR this season. Turgeon- Always seemed to be in the right place to make a play, offensively and defensively. We always noted his hustle and energy. I wasn't a big fan of the pick originally, but I am now convinced. Bert- Much smaller than I expected, both in size and how he plays the game. He made a few bad plays, but managed to assist on the last goal in regulation. IMO he needs to get stronger to be a physical player at the NHL/AHL level. I expected a better game from him- hopefully I caught him on an off night. Sproul- Solid play and a great shot to send the game to OT. I expected him to be the Wings' best D, and he was by far. Hicketts- I was impressed. Solid play and scored the GWG in OT. Was very smart with the puck, always seemed to be in the right position, and made a few good checks. His size didn't seem to be an issue in the game, but will likely hinder him getting an NHL contract. IMO if he were 2-3 inches taller, the Wings would/should sign him. Nedomlel- Formed a solid pairing with Hicketts. Used his size well and was positionally sound. He didn't hesitate to challenge a Blues player to a fight that boarded Athanasiou. I think he has the ability to be a McQuaid type player. McNulty- Has all of the tools, but needs a lot of improvement. He had some great offensive rushes, and was able to use his size to physically dominate play in the corners and in front of the net. He made some bad decisions, and was benched in OT along with Wheaton. Babcock- Scowling as usual, but I saw him smile during the first intermission. Chelios- Looks like he's in shape and ready to play.

Please don't do that, now I'm gonna get him confused with the Player Formerly Known as Steve. Or was it Agent Orange? f***.

Apparently at my house.

Where's BottleofSmoke? Just found this little nuggest barried in Malik's most recent drivel... #Europe: Melén 1+0, +1 & 1 SOG in a 2-1 loss. http://stats.swehockey.se/Game/Reports/208695 … #RedWings 11:39 AM - 13 Sep 2014 Hampus is Back Baby!

Happy to see Jordin Tootoo got invited to the Devils camp. Despite never really fitting in here, he played the good soldier and never complained about his plight. He's a class act all the way and I hope he catches on in New Jersey.

Can't you read? He's an amateur *finger.* he points at stuff, and touches things, and picks noses. Just not professionally.