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Prologue: There has been a lot of ongoing discussion in the 2016 entry draft thread regarding the decisions that Holland and co made or did not make. Some folks think his moves were solid moves and will pay off in the future. Others think that he messed up and he should have did X, Y, and Z. The thing about decisions at the draft is none of us will definitively know the outcome of these decisions until well in the future when we can see see which prospects were home runs, which were busts, and which needed some seasoning but turned into solid acquisitions. I don't know what the accepted timeline is to determine that, but I think by five years we will have a good idea of what kind of player we have. We obviously can't fast forward five years to see how things turn out, but we can rewind five years and revisit what the discussions were regarding the 2011 entry draft. I think this might be a fun thing to do annually, especially because there isn't a whole lot of other exciting things to talk about in the offseason on a hockey forum. That means all your goofy and ridiculous comments are fair game to be quoted five years from now! Anyway here are the threads for the 2011 entry draft: 1st round pick (24th overall): Traded to Ottawa for 35th and 48th picks http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/69925-2011-nhl-draft-round-1-discussion/?hl=%2B2011+%2Bdraft 2nd through 7th round picks: http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/69929-2011-nhl-draft-rounds-2-7-discussion/?hl=%2B2011+%2Bdraft -2nd round pick (35th overall): Tomas Jurco -2nd round pick (48th overall): Xavier Ouellet -2nd round pick (55th overall): Ryan Sproul -3rd round pick (85th overall): Alan Quine -4th round pick (115th overall): Marek Tvrdon -5th round pick (145th overall): Philippe Hudon -6th round pick (175th overall): Richard Nedomiel -7th round pick (205th overall): Alexei Marchenko Some interesting observations: One poster wanted the Wings to pick Jaime Oleksiak with our first round pick, and projected him as a top 3 NHL defensman (currently part of the Dallas Stars organization but has endlessly bounced back and forth between the AHL and the NHL). He was picked 14th overall, well before our 24th pick, anyway. There was lots of love for Jurco leading up to our pick (even in the first round). Opinions were mixed regarding the Wings trading down. Some folks thought it was smart, some folks thought we were better off using our first round pick on a player. It caused a bit of a stir. Today that first round pick is Tomas Jurco and Xavier Ouellete. There was also lots of love for Joe Morrow, who ended up going to the Pens, who picked 23rd. Hes currently a part of the Bruins organization, and has played 48 games total in the NHL, including 33 last season. Everyone seemed to love the second round. People were high on Jurco, Ouellete, and Sproul. There was some hope for Saad to be drafted as well. Some folks believed that Tvrdon and Quine were the steals of the draft. Something I found particularly entertaining regarding that last bit: well here we are. The knuckle-draggers loved the Nedomiel pick. He had a knack for being a tough stay and home defender, apparently, with lots of fights under his belt. Folks didn't seem to know how to take the Marchenko pick. Some thought it was a solid pick up considering he was highly ranked in the previous year's draft, but others thought that was a bad sign that he wasn't drafted and taken in the last round by us the following year. There was also some question on whether he would even be interested in coming to the NHL, also. Anyway, enjoy thumbing through those threads!

This forum makes me giggle sometimes and cry others. Let me get this straight if I can pull this out of my... um memory banks... When the Wings hit on a draft pick it is to the scouts credit. When the Wings miss on a draft pick, Holland picked the wrong guy. Lids leaves and the Wings have no replacement (for one of, if not the, best d-man ever, because those grow on trees) it is Hollands fault for not being prepared. Holland is prepared for Dats leaving, finds a sucker another team to take his contract, and the only thing given up is the 16th pick, and it is an epic fail???? Did I miss anything?

Holland is responsible for crashing the Pokemon Go servers.

negative, It's ManBearPig's doing

If Holland didn't make that trade and we were still stuck with Datsyuk's contract, with little to no activity on July 1st, it would be the exact same people b****ing and moaning. Just imagine how much backlash there would be if Stamkos did hit free agency and he went to Buffalo because we didn't have the cap space to sign him. I don't think there's any question that today Chychrun is more skilled and more developed than Cholowski. My first reaction when we were trading the pick was "pissed" too, but after hearing what the trade entailed, I was stoked. It was a great trade, and you make it every time in that situation. Who knows how it will look in 5-10 years, but hindsight is 20/20...

Still pisses me off how he was treated here. Was a pointless signing by Holland (who for one rare time actually signed a tough playerto fill a need)because Babcock didn't want him, then he had to be bought out. Communication is a good thing sometimes. Idiots. I dunno if Tootoo will see much playing time in Chicago though, but at least he's got an NHL contract again.

Ok, Jordin signed with Chicago.. I just wanted to make the too/to/two joke. http://blackhawks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=888660 I'm going back to disliking Tootoo now. Stupid Hawks.

I seem to remember hearing that Marchenko was highly rated for this draft as well, but he had made it known that he would only come over if he were drafted by Detroit. Hence why we were able to pick him up in the 7th.

I was no for Ozzie, but if he gets in the HHOF (and if you look at his stats, they hold up IMHO compared to other goalies who have been enshrined) it would open the door. As much as I think he should get in the HHOF, if he doesn't, no way his number goes up. In some ways, you could hold that standard for everyone up for jersey retirement. If they are in the conversation for retirement of the jersey, they should be in HHOF consideration as well. Draper and Maltby would be candidates for the ring of honor idea I mentioned previously but nowhere near jersey retirement status.

Same people bothered by the trade would have called for Holland's head because we would be stuck with $7.5 million cap hit and no Vanek or Nielsen. It's hard to support anti-Holland crew when they blame him for everything from contracts to Global Warming. Datsyuk wanted to leave? Must be Hollands fault.

Exactly how I felt/feel. As for the man crush, Stevie Yzerman was my main man crush. Though Feds was def up there too lol

And apparently Wayne Gretzky - aka "The Great One" saw Zetterberg in a different way than some of us as well. An article from about 3 years ago. http://redwings.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=653805 “I think Zetterberg is the best player in the game (at his age),” Gretzky told NHL.com. “He’s been so physically beat up from the Stanley Cup playoffs, Olympics – all that goes with that – but he’s just very special.” Gretzky, the NHL’s all-time leading scorer, then took his admiration for Zetterberg to another level by saying, “I think he’s the best Swedish player they’ve ever put into the National Hockey League, and there has been a lot of great ones, from (Borje) Salming to (Nicklas) Lidstrom.”

If we didn't trade Datsyuk's caphit, we probably wouldn't have Nielson or Vanek. I would be interested to see what the criticism level would be like around here in that case. No one will know for a while what we missed out on with Chychrun, so I think speculating can only go so far. I think it's interesting to compare this trade to the 2013 draft trade where we similarly moved down in the 1st round. 2013: down 2 spots (18:Mirco Mueller - 20: Anthony Mantha) + we received a 2nd rounder (58th: Bertuzzi) 2016: down 4 spots (16:Jakob Chychrun-20: Dennis Cholowski) + we received a 2nd rounder (53rd: Hronek) + we got rid of Pav's caphit + took we took on Vitale's caphit) If you take out the part about the 2 contracts switching hands, the 2 trades look very similar if you look at pick numbers. We gave up a higher 1st round pick in 2016, but we received a higher 2nd so that compensates a bit. Haven't seen any complaints about the 2013 trade and we didn't even get rid of a big contract as part of it. But, obviously, the difference is that we ended up with the higher ranked player (Mantha ranked 15, mueller ranked 16th in the consensus top 30) (Chychrun ranked 12, Cholowski was honourable mention - just outside the top 30). As a sidenote, I don't think we can guess that we would have picked Chychrun. Both Chychrun and Fabbro were ranked higher than 16th and Stanley was taken 18th, so there were D choices and our choices often deviate from the rankings (cholo, bertuzzi are examples). We made the trade to Arizona not the Jets - Or maybe you're referring to them as the relocated Jets? Also, the trade was 16th+Dats for 20th+53rd+Vitale. To simplify it to Dats for Chychrun is very misleading.

It's LGW. If it's not hyperbole it's not worth typing.

HA! I love Holmstrom. He was my favorite player for a long stretch and a part of FOUR Stanley Cup teams. However, he's no superstar. He's not universally heralded nor acclaimed. Holmstrom is one of those dudes that gets stuff done. He might not be the flashiest, or have all the deke's, ice time, or goals to show for it. He's a breed of folks that won't have numbers retired, but will be in the hearts of folks for a long time. When I think of his type of player, I think of the heavy lifters like Draper, McCarty, and Murphy (pre-new glasses). No, there's no way in hell Holmstrom's number should be retired.

This has been discussed ad nauseum. It's far easier to visit family within the same country than internationally. Plus, he will actually be nearby frequently because of the teams he will play. It's not that hard to grasp, people.

I see the yes,I'm finally with a team that will love me in his eyes

How many goals did he take away from Lidstrom?

I'll give you guys another way of looking at the situation. The Detroit Red Wings organization has been in existence since 1926. It's been 90 years since this team existed. In the 90 years there have been 909 different players that played on this team. 909 different players. Of all those players that played, Sergei Fedorov, Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg are ranked number 5, 6 and 7 on all time top scoring list. Numbers 1-4 on the list have had their numbers retired. Number 5 on the list used to be Ted Lindsay who was surpassed by all of Zetterberg, Dats and Feds. Lindsay is now ranked 9. In my opinion, 5, 6 and 7 need to be retired as well. Number 5, 6, 7 out of 900 or so players. That is an incredible thing. They have all set high standards. They are all Red Wing legends. This is not even taking into consideration that Datsyuk and Zetterberg played in an era where scoring is much harder than it used to be with all these giant goalie pads and monster sized defenseman.

Really?

The other point I'll make is this. Retiring Ted Lindsay, Alex Delvecchio Sid Abel and Sawchuk's numbers were also in discussions. Only Howe, Yzerman and Lidstrom were players whose numbers were immediately retired. Lindsay and Delvecchio had their numbers retired in 1991 Sawchuck was retired in 1994 Abel in 1995 Discussing is completely unrelated to likelihood of retirement. Sid Abel retired from the game in 1954 and his number wasn't retired till 40 years after that.

Sometimes he did. It was fun listening to it. Our local USHL team has a guy named Roo. I wanted to get him on a line with them. Ruutu to Tootoo to Roo to Ruutu..... I'm glad Jordin is employed, but I hate that he's with a team that I hate to watch. Maybe he'll accidentally injure Kane and get traded...

Abby will get it. DD will get his when Kronwall retires, and Larkin will jump right to captain when Hank retires.

Abdelkader.