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The moves Holland as been making aren't geared towards winning the Cup, they're geared towards just making the playoffs and keeping the band together. If a GM can't move on from guys like Helm and Miller, who can he move on from?

He was told not to bother by Stamkos' people. After the meeting in TO, it confirmed what Stamkos knew all along - he wanted to stay in TB. It's been all over the news and NHL radio - why is that so hard to understand?

Can we all agree that if Stu Grimson's 32 isn't retired, nobody else's number should be? 81GP (including playoffs) 1G 1A 191PIMs

See, the biggest source of my frustration is that I do feel he has the necessary pieces -- I just think he lacks the will, desire, creativity, cojones, etc. to actually Get It Done. It's complacency, risk-aversion, hoarding. It's arrogance. It's laziness. It's outdated, provincial thinking. It's everything, and it continues to result in a whole lot of nothing. Over the past eleven years, no team has made fewer trades. The Wings' official count is, I believe, 23. The Devils are second from the bottom with something like 50.

This would be a very bad trade. Jurco can still boom, he's young and has the tools. On top of that he doesn't have the best trade value. I hope it's just another nonsensical internet rumor.

Because most people look simply at stats to determine value. Jurco is a 23 year old who has the offensive ability and size to become an impact forward in this league... We forget that in his first 36 NHL games (as a 20 year old) he recorded 8 goals and 7 assists... (82 GP - 18 G - 16 A). Did he truly regress this much? I don't know that he did. Worst case scenario is trading him away for nothing and watching him flourish in someone else's top 6.

The Nielsen signing was absolutely necessary. I'm just painting an overall picture. We signed three past-their-prime veterans (at least one of which we absolutely, positively do not need in any way, shape or form) and re-signed two past-their-prime veterans (at least one of which we absolutely, positively do not need in any way, shape or form). I see a lot of people looking at these signings and saying a trade must be coming. I look at these signings and ask, "How is this any different from last year, or the year before that, or the year before that, or the year before that?" http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/41032-Campbell-Brent-Burns-trade-moves-Sharks-closer-to-Stanley-Cup.html That was five years ago. We're still waiting on That Trade for That Defenseman.

I agree with you. But I don't think this team is as far away as most people. We need (1) Larkin to continue developing into a 1st line Center - and (2) Ken Holland to acquire a young top pairing Defenceman... We have tons of scoring depth (without any superstars) up front and a fantastic young goalie. If you can add the right piece to our defence, it suddenly takes on a much more promising look. Although Jurco for Streit is an awful deal (and probably not actually being considered) - it's that type of move he should be looking to make, even if he has to overpay... Which is why I believe he stocked the cupboard full up front this summer.

If Jurco were to get traded for peanuts, everyone would be livid for years not weeks... If he were playing with any other organization he would be a very good middle 6 winger right now. Unfortunately, he has been severely mismanaged, and his value is at an all time low, so we literally won't know what we have / had until he's gone... Jurco is no all-star, but he's no Ville Leino type scrub either. It would be a mistake to trade him away for nothing...

Maybe not but I'm sure it's pretty accurate.

Jurco scored 6 points last year In the end Jurco will get dealt for peanuts and everyone will be livid for a week or two

It's probably a relatively fair assessment, but at the same time, this is the result of polling fans and only 200 of them, so the results don't really mean that much.

The only way I'd be down with Streit would be if we got rid of Ericsson or Howard. He's not worth Jurco or any of the younger players.

dark chocolate badass cookies? or burnt to a crisp emo whining cookies?

That actually sounds very Canadian.

Datsyuk was the best all around forward in the NHL in his prime years. He should get it.

I really really doubt there is any chance E or Howard are dealt or him, and my previous comments were a joke, but if the Flyers were interested in either of those two I would trade either of them as Streit is a UFA at the end of the year.

We should open some sort of retirement home for all these oldtimers and long term injury players we have. A club house of sorts where fans could come visit to say hello. Taking a few brewskies with Franzen, Cleary and Alfie while they're lamenting of aches and dissatisfactions over falling apart.

21st....sounds about right. How the turn tables....turn. Look, I don't like what Kenny's been doing lately. And there are plenty of people who (with good reason) think that Yzerman in one of if not the best GM in the game right now. But I am kinda wary of saying things like "If only Steve could have taken over the Wings..." The situations are quite different to be making a GM-to-GM comparison, as if all the great moves that he made in Tampa (and the moves Nill makes in Dallas for that matter) would have worked out in Detroit. It's a different organization, the teams have different players in different stages of their careers and contracts. They have different assets and different prospects, ect... I know they are both under a lot of pressure, it comes with the job. But I think it was probably a good thing for Yzerman's GM career and development that he wasn't under the extreme pressure of being the GM of the team to which he was an icon for 2 decades. I don't know that he would have handled things here the same way he handled them in Tampa (just to be clear, he might have done things the same, he might not have. I just don't know, just wanted to say it again), But I'm guessing that being with a different organization would make it a lot easier to manage the team without having to worry about his legacy as a Red Wing. That being said, I still wish he was working for the Wings. The guy is very intelligent, thorough, adaptable (even back to his playing days), negotiated his last few contracts by himself, doesn't let emotion get in the way of what's best for the team (Drouin, St. Lous), ect.. Is he the best GM in the league? I don't know. Is he in the top 5 (maybe even top 3)? I'd say yes, absolutely. And where is Holland? 21st. Right where he belongs.

I refuse to believe Holland is that stupid. However, if this were to happen, I would officially side with the F*** Ken Holland crowd...

Agreed with the bold but we've been progressively getting worse and locking much of the same roster. Which is why I'm not surprised at the rating. Even the most level headed fans are wondering why certain things are going on. You know it's true too. I think the team on paper is better next year compared to last but these new and old contracts are starting to become worrisome. The sum of the parts are adding up little by little. We like our team.

Ive never been able to understand this whole "content to make the playoffs and fold" argument. I don't think anyone is content just making the playoffs. The players have all been vocal about it, it diminishes Holland's reputation, and the Illitches get less income from postseason revenue. Everyone's best interest is going as deep in the playoffs as possible. Holland hasn't had the best success over the past decade at getting our team to take that next step, but treading water while we continue to look for the right fit is a hell of a lot better than drowning, which seems to be what at least a few folks would rather see. I don't know if there's this mindset that missing the playoffs would someone free the shackles from management's arms and allow them to improve the team, like its somehow not possible to improve while still making the playoffs, but trying to make logic of it makes my brain sad. In any event, I'm surprised the rating is that low. To say that there are only nine teams managed worse than the Wings seems like our fan base is made up of a bunch of prima donnas. Actually on second thought maybe that rating is right where I should expect it.

Dont forget Alfie. I guess this doesnt speak well for Vanek lol.

LOL at him being in the HHOF. Even the Hall wouldn't stoop that low. Richards/Weiss/Modano. Who are we going to retire next?

Krs-one covered most of my response, but also Helm never said this bolded no matter how many times you refer to it. He said he's fine with playing on the lower lines as long as there's "that respect factor." Whatever the hell that means, but he does seem to be fine on the 3rd and 4th.