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I'm not one to get misty eyed over prospects, but moving Larkin fills a hole by creating another. Mantha or AA plus a pick and prospect is better and should be comparable to other offers

Git 'er dun, Kenny!

We should be all over trouba

Trouba has requested a trade... http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jacob-troubas-agent-says-client-requested-trade/

So I guess we are debating the re-build lol. Doing the same things over and over again when you have had great success, is hard to argue against. The last time Holland did a re-build on the fly was when he had to transition from Yzerman, Shanny, Hull, Luc, Hasek, Fedorov, Larionov and others, and Holland did it successfully and won a Stanley Cup, almost 2. This time, he is doing the same thing, but in a completely different system (ie. cap) which means you cannot do it as fast and it must be more youth based due to the cap. Here is our top 20 that played most nights (12 Forwards, 6 D, 2 Goalies) in 2012, I will bold anyone who is no longer in our projected top 18 for 2016/17: Cleary, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Zetterberg, Hudler, Miller, Abby, Bertuzzi, Helm, Emmerton, Holmstrom, Lidstrom, White, Kronwall, Stuart, Quincey, E, Howard, Conklin Assuming E and Miller get a starting spot (which is not a given), we have gotten rid of 13 guys. HUGE amount of turnover in just 4 years. On our roster now we have Larkin, Mrazek, AA, Mantha?, Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan, DD, Marchenko, with Jurco, Pulk, XO, and Sproul trying to break into the lineup and alot of top prospects in the minors led by Svechnikov and Mantha? in the waiting. Without a question, Holland is re-building. Now, whether or not it is successful remains to be seen. When the mandate from ownership is to keep your streak alive (dont kid yourself, Mr. I cares about this streak, it's his legacy), but you also have to re-build, that isn't the easiest task out there. I will say though, it can be a very efficient way of going about it as creating a culture of losing can be an awful thing (ask any Lions fan about this). You talk about Edmonton, Buffalo, Toronto, Winnipeg, Florida and the Isles, but how much success has actually been obtained by any of these teams with their tank jobs? Who cares about message board/media hype, what matters is results on the ice. Edmonton has been a joke of a franchise since 2006, how many #1 overall picks and top #5 picks have they had and they still have not gotten into the playoffs. McDavid does appear to be on a different level, but if anyone could screw him up, it would be them. Buffalo has done nothing and have not made the playoffs in years, I think you over-hype Eichel a bit and put wayyyy to much pressure on the kid. Florida got in last year at a high seed, but were bounced early and until they can show consistency, I have a hard time seeing their transition as a success. Toronto and Winnipeg have done nothing, and while the Isles have been consistent in the regular season that past few years, have won 1 playoff series since 1993! I cant see how the Isles can be looked at in a higher light then Wings right now. The only thing the Isles have done that the Wings have not, is they got a #1 pick who they may lose in a year or two. Now dont misinterpret me, I am not saying all of these teams are failing or are going to fail, what I am saying is that the teams you listed have not accomplished anymore then the Wings with their re-build. I know you only think a player can be great if he was taken top 5, but there is no reason not to think that Larkin will not be our #1 centre as like I have showed before, statistically speaking he is at the same level as Eichel. Either way, we are going in circles. You want the Wings to get a top 5 pick and to bottom out, I do not. The only way to see if this re-build is working is to give it time. I hope you can see this. On a side note, Cleary was mentioned in my post

Agreed. It's fashionable to paint Kronwall as a career #2 guy who was in above his head, but that definitely wasn't the case. His defense, point production, and powerplay contributions easily made him a legit #1 for a few years there. If you can man the powerplay, play 20+ minutes a night, and score 40+ points a season you're a legit top defenseman. Was he as good as Doughty, or Keith, or Subban? No, but that doesn't mean he wasn't a top guy.

Maybe in the sense that it allowed him to play on the 2nd pair, but they pretty much never played together, if that's what you meant. I think Lids actually think made Kronwall look worse because people point of comparison was one of the best Dmen of all time. I think Kronwall was a fine #1 when he first made the switch, but injuries have quickly taken him off that level in recent years.

Hence the word 'potential' that I used. Very few players in the NHL are 1st line centers in their first or second year in the league. I think he'll get to that level - maybe you think he'll stay at his current level - we haven't even seen him play much center so we'll see. Edit: Regardless, you said he was like a lot of our other players and him as a 6'2" very fast well rounded center puts him as something we don't have elsewhere (maybe AA, but most project a lower ceiling for him), let alone the fact that he's the first player to make the team at 19 in such a long time.

There's a difference between saying there are limits to what I'd be comfortable giving up and saying something is a deal breaker. Obviously I'd prefer if Holland didn't have to include one of AA/Mantha/Svech, but I'm not going to condemn that trade if it happens. I understand the need for someone like Trouba. I won't go as far as to say that people are overvaluing him right now, but the lack of defenders with his kind of potential in Detroit's system is definitely boosting his value in this situation, IMO. Considering what's at stake, they're most likely going to have to "overpay" in this case, either way. I'm not entirely sure what the Jets are looking for in return, but there are a number of other teams in a better position than the Wings to make a solid offer for Trouba. I'll be pleasantly surprised if Holland can land him.

You're right......my trade wouldn't work because of the cap. You have to give up someone with a similar cap hit and guys like Mantha, AA are not even close to what Trouba will end up being. Maybe you throw a guy like AA in there with a Smith/Tatar and a pick? Though losing AA and Tatar would hurt us offensively. I'm glad I'm not Holland right now.

It's far from being a slam dunk. As Trouba is an RFA Cheveldayoff is the one in the driving seat and has all the time in world. Trouba training in Detroit doesn't necessarily mean anything. As he was born in Michigan it could also just mean that he is skating in the best facility near to his home. The race is wide open in my opinion and even if Kenny makes a reasonable offer including Nyquist/Tater, Mantha, Smith he might still get the short end of the stick. We all know the crazy prices for elite defenseman and the also crazy GMs willing to pay them. We also have to keep in mind Troubas cap hit. The 58 mil over 8 years he demands are ridiculous and paying that would be a bad move by Kenny. Trouba is still young and may not pan out the way projected. One thing is for sure though: This might be the best chance we've ever had to add a (maybe) future No. 1 defenseman to our core. And Kenny should be paying any price necessary to make that trade happen, excluding only Mrazek and Larkin. He just has to make sure beforehand that Trouba signs here for a reasonable salary and term.

Larkin, Trouba, DD, and Mrazek definitely gives us a very strong core.

With NA out, I'm done watching..

Agreed, if this team gets an identity it's going to include Larkin, DD, and Mrazek, in my opinion

Strongly disagree with this part. Larkin is a center - what other pontential top line centers do we have in the system? Even potential top 6 centers probably just include him and AA. Also, Larkin is 6'2" - is that really small? Even if you put ish on the end, I disagree. He was 190 last year, but he was 19 and he'll put more weight on. I'm assuming you're comparing him to Gus and Tats and they are 5'10 and 5'11" To me, trading Larkin would just create the hole in the 1C position, which is almost as hard to fill as 1D.

Ovechkin and Malkin are total trash for the Russian team. These guys never show up in the biggest international competitions. Time to replace them with the younger guns. And as I stated earlier, Russia doesn't develop good defensemen. They had Marchenko on the team for Pete's sake.

Saw this too. Gonna be gutted if he goes to someone in our division. Everything looks so perfect too.... this could be the trade that puts Kenny back in everyone's good graces.

Probably doesn't mean much but Interesting though lol Ken Wiebe ‏@WiebeSunSports 29m29 minutes ago #NHLJets RFA D Jacob Trouba told me tonight he plans to train and skate in Detroit until the matter is resolved I know he is from the area, but can't be bad news ha

We have a overabundance of forwards, Move some and make it happen.

No you don't, we are not talking PK Subban here. He wants Larkin, 1st rounder, and a roster player you laugh in his face. You have to make the right move, making a trade for the sake of making the trade is just stupid.

Kenny better be on line one and make that happen bring him home. DannyD - Trouba as the top pair would be a nice draft whatever the jets want you pay it

You got to think though, why would they say anything but. You try to get the best deal possible. I would fine with anyone going the other way except Mrazek and Larkin.

If two players are equally good and you want to take the local kid, sure. Loading the team with average to middling players, calling a second pair D a star, and hoping that Larkin turns into an elite player just because they're all from Michigan isn't a sound strategy. Also, the idea that they like each other or have chemistry because they're from the same state is flawed. Maybe they played against each other and one threw a cheap shot, or banged another guy's girlfriend, or they hate each other for another reason.

Rather then go for a Canadian d-man or a Michigan d-man etc. Lets just try to get a D-man who has the skill set that what we need regardless of where he was born.

Even better, been a while since I've had one of those, but always loved them.