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Vanek is expected back Sunday so that should give the offence a boost

I don't want us to be mired in mediocrity for the next 10 years, but I don't care about the Cup that much to have us suck for the next 8 years. Yeah, I said it.

Yup. Dunning-Kruger effect.

I'm well aware of Coffey's lack of defense, but he absolutely had value as a point per game defenseman at 34 years old... Erik Karlsson plays a similar game. Does he have value? Will he have value in 8 years if he's putting up similar numbers? Absolutely. When Holland picks a stud in the 3rd / 4th / 5th / 6th / 7th round, its luck, but if he picks a dud in the 1st or 2nd, he sucks... Got it!

Over the last 25 years here are our 1st round draft picks, sorry if I mispell or forget someone: 92 Bowen-nothing 93 Eriksson-nothing 94 Golubovsky-nothing 95 Kuznetsov-very little 96 Wallin-nothing 98 Fischer-very little, only one because of health/injuries 00 Kronwall-long and successful career 05 Kindl-very little 07 Smith-very little moving into the bust range 08 McCollum-nothing 10 Sheahan-3rd liner at best 13 Mantha-still too early to know 14 Larkin-still too early to know 15 Svechnikov-too early to know 16 Cholowski-way to early to know That is 15 1st round picks over the last 25 years. I am and was completely fine with trading away the picks we moved. It helped us win cups. But look at the guys we drafted. The first 12 names on the list were all taken in the last 1/3 of the draft-pick 20 or later. Only 1 amounted to anything-Kronwall and only 1 still has a chance to do so-Mantha. The last 3 it is still too early to know anything. The NHL average is 2 out 3 1st round picks turn into regular NHL players. We are below that. The first 11 guys have all been around long enough to have real actual info on. 3 have made it, 8 failed. TBH this is terrible drafting/developing. If it wasn't for the luck we had 20 years ago with Z, D, and Homer we would have been drafting top 5 a long time ago. For anyone to believe that we can build through the draft without having top 5 picks, the facts don't lie. We as an organization have shown 0 ability to do that. Only 1 of our last 15 1st round picks have made it. Only 1 of those 15 is due to bad luck-Fischer. Yes the last 4 still have hope and promise. Just don't expect all 4 to make it/become stars.

That´s ok, sorry for confusion. Rather confirming your idea above with true fact we failed in last seventeen years with our low picks. Scouting become balanced through the league, I believe it´s nearly impossible to repeat Dacjuk-like pick nowadays with "who´s that guy?" gem in 7th round. It´s my way how answer original topic point. 1 or 2? Ok, you can be real contender with low picks, but we need to prove our picks better, not giving them shot after 5 yrs of OHL/AHL/whatever... I mean, make this process quick as possible and don´t hesitate to make some mistakes - BUT mitigate anchor long term veteran contracts like Abby, Helm, Ericsson etc., keep roster flexible for future changes. If not possible, then suck and tank. I don´t like this idea either. Honestly, I don´t like Hawks´s way as I can remember them as a total league garbage and I don´t want to see Wings to be a team without honor because of waiting for another Austcklas McJesustzky.

Maybe the reason Glendening is there is him creating space for other players ? I think Blashill had him in GR so there must be something he sees in him. I mean, Blashill for sure has seen that things aren't working so he is trying to fix it via try a a error. Hardly anything wrong with that.

Frank....all krsmith said was that there were better options at 2nd line wing then Glendenning, which there are. There was NOTHING said about hidden gems, nothing said about Zetterberg retiring, nothing said about Holland, nothing said about rebuilding.

There are beer league players who would be better options

Only reason the "90's on the fly rebuild" worked is, we had a team with players that other players around the league wanted to play with/on and no cap. Right now, no one taking a pay cut to play with Z in the top 6 or Helm on the 3rd line or Green on the top D pair. No one gonna take a pay cut to play with theses guys. As much as I like Z, that time is over.

I dont think this fan base could handle a complete tank job and re-build to be honest. If Holland did do that I think that fans would call for his head even worse then now. The perfect example is back in June. I cant tell you how many posters, radio callers, people I spoke to were saying that if Holland didn't trade Datsyuk's contract he deserved to be fired. What those statements alone told me is that people wanted to Wings to re-tool for for 2016/17. The thought of keeping his cap-hit even if it meant sacrificing the future was something most fans wanted.

There comes a point when a team will finish in the bottom 10 and simply have no say in the matter. This team is headed that way, judging the product on the ice I've been watching. By no means does that mean I think the sky is falling. In the end, I think a clean slate is what this franchise desperately needs right now. I just hope that come trade deadline, if they aren't in a playoff spot, that they are far enough out of one where selling is the only option. If the streak continues, so will the 5 game first round exits.

I have to ask....if you are letdown, what were your expectation coming into the season? Last time I checked which was yesterday afternoon, we were in a 4 way tie for 11th in the league. Were your expectations of this team top 5 in the NHL? Personally, this team hasn't let me down at all. They are exactly where I thought they would be. I don't expect this team to contend until Larkin/Mantha/AA/Mrazek get to that next level, and we acquire a 1A d-man.

Hey everyone, been lurking in the GDT SUs this season and thought I'd actually pipe up. Just checking what I'd need to do if I signed up? I like the work HockeyTown0001 does each time but is there a set format you like people to stick to? Or is it just the basics to open the thread? I'm based in the UK so generally I can get off work and start on a nice design much earlier than you guys over there (probably the only time that 5 hour time difference would be helpful lol). If not I can do a weekend game? I'll say I can take the 26th, just so it gives me a bit of time to lurk some more in the GDTs and get a feel, but generally would like to contribute Name's Gabe btw

I would have agreed with this in October but frankly Z has been the most consistent producer in November. 6 points in 6 games tied for team lead now. And his line is matching up much better than everyone else is. He's also been one of our better defensive forwards on the top 6. Him and Darren Helm deserve some credit here, they have both been matching opponent lines pretty well. Our 2nd line is concerning. Ultimately everyone needs to chip in and win battles. Tatar has to be better. Vanek needs to be back and Larkin needs to dish out more assists and Nielsen needs to not be a minus player... He's -7! Even worse is Riley Sheahan with -8 and 3 points in 16 games.. Sheesh...

Lol. Hahahahahahahaah. Glendog will get his hattrick.

Haha oh man. Why not put Mantha or Bertuzzi there? Least I got two good things out of that article. Kronwall isn't playing tomorrow, and Vanek should be back on the weekend.

In the end, we have enough depth that if we were to acquire a couple of top 10 draft picks, there would be plenty of assets to make trades to fill holes. If the Wings keep drafting 15-20 at best, we'll be another 5 years of developing before contending again. One or two top picks significantly reduces that if we have a competent GM. Best case scenario is having the playoff streak end, Holland getting fired as a result, and scoring in the draft lottery. Another 10 years of what we dealt with for the past 4, or sucking for 8 years are both garbage options. Suck for one or two and this team is competitive again. Luckily this team has the ability to suck without tanking on purpose. Blash and the beat writers will keep stressing about having to fix the mistakes the team makes. These mistakes are made because the team is overmatched most nights. The roster is just not that good right now. And with Trouba seemingly off the market, there seems to be no dman trades out there that helps the team in the future.

Last year after the first game of the season, Abby was on pace for 246 goals lol.

If we're assuming tanking will equal Cup (and that assumption is the whole point of this thread), then I'm still choosing option one. Tanking for 8 years would suck. All the posts about how tanking doesn't necessarily equal a Cup are pointless. We're talking hypotheticals here. So would you guys be willing to tank if you knew we'd win another Cup in 10 years? I wouldn't.

I would check stats again. Z, Nyquist and Green at tied for point lead, Z is leading in assists and Larkin is leading the team in goals. Premature panic. Mike Green was signed to be a scoring defenseman by the way. So him being high in points is actually a good thing.

Tanking for 8 years?? lol I don't even know what to say anymore...

The thing is, with the stockpiling of talent Holland has done over the last few years, this team could be a lottery team for 1 or 2years and be right back in the hunt. The depth is there, talent is there, we just lack that elite talent. Draft one or two guys in the top 10 (or even top 5), and the assets are there to make the moved needed to fix the defense. To sum things up, I'd be fully on board seeing the team suck for a shot at Nolan Patrick. If the streak ended in any of the last few years, I'd have been heartbroken. This season I just feel ready for it. As a fan, I am within a window where I am prepared for a basement season and a clean slate. This is because the alternative is to keep the streak going and be stuck in mediocrity for a bunch more years.

Given those two options, I think most (if not everyone) would pick option 2... the problem is, there's an option in between the two extremes...